Wtf is up with pugs in AV, especially on the 2nd boss?

Something like 70% of my AV runs are dead keys and I loathe getting them at this point. The longer the season lasts, the worse pugs get to the point that it’s near impossible to time this nightmare, and higher keys from 17-19 are the worst of all.

Half of those keys if not more were all on the 2nd boss, regardless of whether it’s tyrannical or fortified. Wtf are people doing? There’s a deadly frontal and a telegraphed orb both of which are easy as hell to dodge, there are heals ALWAYS dying on the 2nd phase, and if you bring a combat ress class, those are guaranteed to die first.

Last boss is also atrocious and easily bricks runs that by some miracle go well up to that point, but the 2nd one is a greater bottleneck than any other boss this season at least from my experience.

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For me, AV is by far the worst dungeon. Trash has more mechanics than some other dungeon bosses, the bosses are way more difficult than others (I got my KSM before 3rd boss nerfs, which was arguably one of the hardest implemented in m+ and after that I never toucehd AV), and it has a very short and unforgiving timer.

To answer your question -

The problem with this one is the same as Court of Stars 1st and last one. The mechanics are very simple and require 1 brain cell to manage, but they are way too frequent. You can evade them perfectly for 2 minutes, but if you sneeze at the wrong point or if you lose focus for 1 second, you get pretty much deleted, which IMO is a stupid design.

Nothing to add here, as you’ve said it yourself.

Anyways, dungeons like AV, NO actually make me hate m+ so much. Can’t even imagine how Halls of infusion, Brackenhide, Uldaman and Neltharus will play out in the upcoming season.


True and this get exacerbated with higher key levels and tyrannical, which is why I hate Blizzard for locking rewards to 20 keys this time around. I’ve always hated high keys because interactions just become tedious and oppressive as hell due to scaling, damage sponge enemies are not fun and never never have been.

I image it’s gonna be infinitely worse than this season, to the point that I doubt I’ll be playing beyond KSM. There is literally only one dungeon I’m looking forward to which is Freehold lmao, a dungeon from 4 years ago.

It doesn’t really make a difference in my eyes. Yes, on 20s tyrannical it’s a guaranteed one shot, but even with 360 - 370 ilvl, it was pretty much same in +6 - +8 when I did it. Insta one shot for people and run down the drain since you can’t recover AV if you wipe unless you’re overgearing or doing some crazy pulls. My opinion? Rubbish. And don’t get me wrong, I understand one-shot mechanics and I support them, but only if it’s something that players can prepare for or don’t occur so frequently.

Also it’s a m+ run not a mythic boss in a raid, where you just waste 5-6 minutes worst case scenario and pull again. This is 30, sometimes even more minutes wasted for absolutely nothing. Not a good design by any means.

Yep, I think so too. They said they are tuning, but I doubt it will be tuned ok, especially with the timers of the runs. I can think of issues right now and S2 isn’t even out yet:

  • Freehold - Parrot boss oneshotting (same mechanic as the orb pretty much).
  • Underrot - Cragmaw having way too much hp and ticks doing massive damage, last boss just being a mess like it was in BFA.
  • Vortex Pinnacle - I hope they make some changes to mechanics, especially the dragon boss since the winds can be extra messy, and it’s very hard to navigate breaths.
  • Neltharion’s lair - It was ok in Legion, so I hope it will be the same this time around.
  • Neltharus - Just way too much trash and way too many hps mechanics on bosses. Will be difficult on either difficulty.
  • Uldaman - Hard to navigate corridors with certain affixes, and 5 bosses meaning tyrannical weeks will be tight as hell (same as TOP in SL).
  • Brackenhide - Bosses have little mechanics, but very harsh dps and hps checks, and I can’t even imagine the place on fortfied. So much trash.
  • Halls of Infusion - Tol Dagor / Seat of the Triumvurate of DF, mark my words :slight_smile:
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Watched some m+ streams from the PTR.

Lots of groups that barely got past the first boss in brackenhide, some of them required a blood DK to solo the boss after everyone else died, lmao.

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Well, turns out my concerns are valid. :smiley: Hope they will still fix it and make it like it’s supposed to be… I’m thinking S2 will roll out somewhere between 15th May - 15th June.

Timed 20 last night. We went there for “vault”. Ended up melting eveerything. Everyone was doing their job, healer was healing tank was tanking and pulling faster and faster as he saw mobs melting and healers mana stable. After dungeon no one undestood what happened xD We all got score upgrade. Keep trying it will work out /fingerscrossed

AV is fine now
It went through a couple of nerfs including a timer nerf just 2 weeks ago

But i understand what you’re saying
The problem ain’t the dungeon but the quality of players you’re getting
Don’t expect this to change even at higher keys with high rated players.

All 4 bosses are hard in there

You can’t even hit Azureblade or Telash for 50% of their fights

And don’t get me started on the trash

The whole dungeon is aids

AV is a very strange key, on one hand the mechanics are boneheadedly simple and the timer is enormously lenient. On the other it’s an incredibly unforgiving instance overall with a lot of onus on the tank to manage larger pulls. The most important thing about AV is to just keep moving forward once you get past the first boss.

As far as the bosses go, leymore is definitely one of the hardest fights this season, but then the difficult really ramps down. After the hefty Azureblade nerfs the main phase adds arent a massive priority past the first two, with the last of each set pretty much being able to be passive cleaved down. Telash doesn’t do anything besides intermittent bouts of entirely healable damage, and Umbreskul has had his wings clipped now the balls don’t chase you around, your tank just has to keep moving him into clean space as the fight progresses so DPS can hit crystals.

Yeah this isn’t remotely true. The timer is the worst in the whole season or up there with the Academy/HoV, and the density of trash mechanics is probably higher than any other dungeon. Mobs are covering everything in garbage non stop all the time, you can’t stay in one place for 2 seconds with any trash packs as melee.

There is also this hella annoying trend in M+ in general about having to run back through half a dungeon after dying. It wastes so much of your time and it feels awful because of the timer. You can run from any spawn point to the nearest boss in CoS 3-4 times faster than running back once in AV/AA.

I dunno M+ this time around is beyond trash.

People are so boosted and only hope to get boosted, they will only take you if you are 500+ rio than needed. If you want to have proper runs do your own key, take 30-60 mins to get a proper group and make sure to get insanely overqualified players.

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AV is probably the worst dungeon, from trashes to bosses.

As for the second boss, I think regular phase is okayish, provided tank moves the boss to the edge of the room. As for second phase, I think balls spawn rate should be slightly decreased because I feel like it’s a bit oppressive. I’m glad I’ve timed this on 21 so that I don’t have to get my feet in there for my weekly vault.

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AV is worst than SD and it hurts because one of the keys I need to do in order to get 2.5k is AV.

More than 99% of the keys I joined this week for this dungeon is a joke. Healers who cannot dispel the tree debuff, dps who forgot they can use kicks, I am not even talking about the second boss.

Just mess in general.

I made my own key, SBG 19+, 40k dps overall dps from the dps, hello me as a tank do on average 50k+, I left on Ner’zhul (3 wipes A F-ING WIPE ON FORTI NERZ) as they did not deserve it.

Also, what is up with these make your own key thingy? If everyone will make their own keys, who will join then?

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What tree debuff?

I guess the one that must be interrupted on the trees before the 1st boss.

The treants that turn you into a tree if you don’t kick it, and many dps just ignore it nor healers are paying attention.

Ok. Never seen it :slight_smile: I thought you talked about the boss itself too, and there is not dispellable.

It’s what happens if you don’t interrupt the channel from the treants. The two treants prior to leymore’s room are pulled singularly and their cast is on a long enough cd that a tank can get it solo with their basic interrupt. The three in Leymore’s room don’t have to be pulled together, and I assume often aren’t in lower keys due to caution or safety, but once there’s three trees active at once you need at least 3 dedicated kicks, one for each, and maybe two ranged or a ranged + healer have to share one to accommodate their longer cooldown.

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You will keep running the toxic hamster wheel for no rewards. You will like it, you will enjoy it. This is the game you coose to play. Now enjoy.