the old talent system didn’t offer much of a choice either, if you wanted to play in a competitive way, there was 1 perfect build, everything else was bad. The same applies to the current talent system, just that you have 1 perfect build for specific situations, you have a perfect build for aoe situations, for single target situations… you get what I mean here
To get a good solution, they have to figure out how to perfectly balance talents first, which is almost impossible
This will always remain to be the case with any possible system that you could possibly think of. It is an unpreventable and unfixable problem that we need to accept.
You can’t argue that there’s “single target” and “AoE” and thus the system has more choices. They’re just taking away baseline abilities that you used to have away from you and force you to pick. That’s also still only two situations. I can think of at least four or five different talent builds in Vanilla WoW alone for Warriors.
So following that logic the vanilla talent system still has more options than the current one.
I didn’t say the current system is perfect (I am still crying, because CoH is not baseline anymore… it was baseline once, but they put it into talents) I am just saying, that probably neither system is better than the other
Depends on your definition of “better”.
The issue at hand is that players don’t receive anything when they level up except for 1 ability (sometimes passive) every 15 levels.
The old talent system gave you a point every level.
So in this specific situation the old talent system is 15 times better at fixing this issue than the current system is.
I know that, but a level squish in combination with a better talent system might do the trick, because giving 1 talent every level is not doing the trick anymore
(Imagine 120 talent points, which you can distribute, also it is almost impossible to come up with more than 120 satisfying options, which do not give the players too many buttons)
If you do the level squish, you can come up with 60 options, so they wouldn’t give too many buttons and can give out some stats
if I remember correctly in cata we had around 60 -70 skill points
Indeed, I think the same thing but I in my opinion the discussion should be about the leveling experience and not “level squish” or “talents system”, the reason we discuss this to begin with is because to some of us leveling feels bad and boring and there’s no sense of progression as there was in the past so in my opinion the discussion should start there.
People can compare the past and the future without saying things like “bring back old talent system” as if it will fix everything which doesn’t make sense to the current game where in the current game we have roles and other systems like Looking For Group and Loot Spec depends on it; however, as I mentioned before you can still bring some of the flavor of the old talent system and it might just work.
A better talent system alone would do the trick. There are 0 good reasons why we need a level squish.
True! 100+ points are probably too many.
But you can just not squish anything and do it like…
…That would work perfectly well.
Honestly we’ve already been through this.
Mate… You can’t discuss one without the other…
The Talent System is the very thing that gives all of the progression of leveling and that system currently is lacking. That is why we are having this conversation in the first place and a Level Squish would directly impact leveling as well. In a negative way. That’s all it’d do.
I don’t see how LFG and Loot is even remotely connected to a talent system or leveling…?
Unless you mean that loot specialization gives you the loot of your specialization in which case you can just make it so that a person has to select the main tree he wants to specialize in before they are able to spend points at all, which would result in the loot that they receive always being for the specialization that they selected.
oh look, problem solved.
this could be a problem for everyone, who wants to finish the quest zones,
if you guess the number wrong, you either can’t get to the next bracket or you can’t finish the zones without outleveling them
this is already the case with outland for example, I recently leveled up a character and I almost outleveled outland, while I was trying to do the loremaster achievement, I had to do a level stop, to do the achievement, because I would have become level 81 and this would have stopped me from queueing into bc dungeons, and there are bc dungeon quests in the loremaster achievement, and I didn’t want to wait, until I outlevel the zones either
Fixed. You’ve got all the time to do all the zones now.
These are rookie problems!
You certainly can and I gave examples in few of my posts.
The Talent System is the very thing that gives all of the progression of leveling and that system currently is lacking . That is why we are having this conversation in the first place and a Level Squish would directly impact leveling as well. In a negative way. That’s all it’d do.
No, the talent system is not the very thing that gives all of the progression of leveling but in your world it is and like I wrote in one of my replies it was much more than that, back then you had spells ranks, weapons skills and stuff so the talent system was part of the progression not all of it, stop lying to yourself.
I don’t see how LFG and Loot is even remotely connected to a talent system or leveling…?
Where in the quote did I mention leveling? and where did I say that the talent system is connected to LFG or the Loot Spec? What I meant was that if you want to bring the old talent system back then it wouldn’t work because it also means mixed specs and nowadays systems in the game depends on the fact that players have defined roles.
oh look, problem solved.
Yeah, right…
Anyway, I think I’m done here, I said everything I had to say, good luck with your “old talent system” crusade. 
Oh you mean the other things I also mentioned in post #11 of this thread? 
I mis-read that. My bad.
Well, yes. It was that easy.
Thanks! I’m sorry that you felt the need to focus only on one of the points that I brought up and completely ignore the other ones.
Good luck in your future threads though 
It took them way to long,hope it comes before new expansion!
just gave you the test of your own medicine,good luck fighting back against lvl squish you silly goose 
Do you merely act uneducated on the forums because you think that it’s funny or is it genuinely just part of your over-all ‘‘charm’’? 
It is “To give someone a taste of their own medicine”.
I don’t know. The change could make a huge improvement in attracting new players, as long as the level’ing itself is fun and gives a better sense of character progression than what currently is the case. Seeing 60’ish levels instead of what likely is to become 125/130 is more pleasing for anyone looking to get into a new game and that alone might be reason enough to go through with a full squish by now.
I do agree that a squish alone won’t do the trick if they don’t look at some things from the older versions of the game when level’ing was a slower process. By this i’m not advocating for making the “experience” take much longer than it currently does, but at what each level being slower does for the available content and perhaps even the social aspect.
With each level taking longer to go through, quest, dungeon and profession rewards last longer. For dungeons this potentially turn more players toward those in order to perhaps get their characters optimised for further level’ing whereas professions serve the function of letting the player take some time off from questing to get good rewards. A side effect of this could be an increasingly lively server economy.
Then there’s BG’s, which i do wish they’d do something to in regards to getting more guaranteed gear. Adding in the old BG specific marks and letting the player save those for items at the vendor could be an option there and a way of making max level players have new transmogs to aim for.
Most of these are somewhat reward centric. This is due to how getting a good usable piece that lasts for longer feels better to obtain during the level’ing process and it leaves more venues open for those that wish to really optimise their gear. I know i enjoyed doing that in TBC and WotLK, though i may be in the minority there where current potential WoW-players are concerned.
you want good argument on why current talent system is better then old then go read what Blizzard said when they changed it. I agree with there reasons.
repeating something over and over wont turn it into a fact.
But there’s no verifying that, though. Saying that it might attract new players is a complete and utter guess. Also it may also turn off players that would otherwise return. If I didn’t play the game anymore and I heard about a change like this – it’d actually push me to not sub again.
Improving bg rewards is always a good idea, they’re kind of bland as is.
We’ve been there and i’ve already gone and debunked that. When somebody asks you to find a good reason for something it’s often not a good idea to then go and tell that person “Go look up the 7 year old arguments that someone else had when they removed the system in favor of the new one.”, especially since the new system that they replaced the old one with failed harder than the system it replaced.
So i’ll take your answer as a “I can’t come up with anything myself”.
that “someone else” being the game makers who have more knowledge and feedback then some random players opinions.
1+1 is still 2, last year or next year.
you can do anything with your imagination, its a wonderful tool.
First of all the fact that they made the game doesn’t mean that they’re always right and secondly you do realize that the feedback that they have comes from random player opinions…? Not to mention that the people who wrote that Blog post that you are referring to do not even work for Blizzard anymore and wouldn’t be the same people that would make the Level Squish change.
Also don’t you realize that that is the precise reason why they ask for feedback in the first place? So that they have it and can learn from it? So that it may help guide the direction that their final decision may take?
Do you seriously believe that Blizzard doesn’t make mistakes? That what they said in a 7-year old blog post could not possibly be wrong? Because I can name several other blog posts that were wrong just from the top of my head the first of which being the ones in where they said that a Classic Realm would never happen. They had that same tone for years only for it to change when the players showed just how much they wanted it.
People are not bound by what they said over half a decade ago.
You are seriously trying to tell me now to not give the feedback that they asked for “because Blizzard makes the game”.
Are you serious? Like for real? Surely you can’t be.
Then use yours and think up a good reason of your own in favor of a Level Squish that may change my mind.