Nobody’s saying to put RDF in Classic. They’re saying to put it in WotLK, the expansion where it was introduced, as it’s become little more than a legacy feature in retail as nobody really bothers with RDFing heroics.
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You have vanilla and som.
Wotlk features in wotlk.
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I am not playing classic because of no LFD tool - I’m playing because I have a change to try things I never did the first time around. Claiming that the only reason for classic in no LFD tool is so far beyond stupid, you can’t even see stupid from there.
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Why dont you just stay in SoM if you hate wotlk features so much? Who is forcing you to play wotlk?
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if you have the destroyes boring new cataclysm level zones instead of the classic level 1 to 60 level zones, you have retail …
this is the most stupid part of retail …
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WLK was so a horrible experience.
I cannot wait for WLK Classic to come and for everyone to see how terrible it really was especially compared to Vanilla Classic. Most people saying they liked it are like youself: Wrath Babies; you came in during WLK without experiencing what made the game great to begin with.
WLK:
Lazy raid content; repeated raids through “difficulties / 10/25 man versions”
Really bad raids: Naxxaramus bastardized out the gate where people Pugged everything and cleared it in an hour.
Short, crappy raids: Vault of Archavon(Four copy and paste rush down bosses), The Obsidian Sanctum(One room, one boss), The Eye of Eternity(One boss), Trial of the Crusader(Which was one arena with bosses that spawned in the same room as you!), The Ruby Sanctum(One boss!). Even ICC was lazily done. It was a spiral! You could pug every single raid to boot!
Introduction of Daily rep/gold grinds through daily quests
Introduction of toxic “achievements” and “Gear Score”(Which was an addon at the time
Ruined class diversity
Simplified classes and game mechanics
AoE tank/DPS runs
Beginning of people leaving groups after 15minutes
Beginning of gear checks and achievement checks for NORMAL. DUNGEONS.
It was such a trashy, toxic and horrible expansion that promoted scummy behaviour and gameplay. The only good to come out of it was Ulduar. Everything else was lazy, rushed, overly simplified and short on content. Wrath Babies forget the massive stretches in between content and how starved of content the expansion was. Trial of the Grand/Crusader was delayed a number of weeks if not months, the majority of raids(Which was the only content you had other than daily quests) were very small single room areas, people complained about all of this!
I lived through WLK and I remember how everyone hated LFG but had to use it because it was a feature that literally grouped you up and teleported you to the dungeon no matter where you were on the map and doing it the old way with this feature there was a fools errand. It defeated the purpose of the game, the social interaction, the grouping together and making friends with goods tanks, healers or DPS who were dependable and didn’t just spam abilities at random. You also couldn’t find groups through it either because tanks were so rare. WLK was so bad for tanking and so unfun that no one wanted to tank and when they were tanking they got snatched up by a guild and geared super fast so they didn’t need to do dungeons. It was also incredibly hard to find tanks despite half the classes in the game being able to tank and everyone having dual specialisation!
Then there was the epidemic of “ninja looting” where you would have people join on LFG DPS and then need on tank gear because it’s their “off spec” or a tank joining only to ninja a DPS item piece because it was their “off spec” and this all happened after waiting an hour as DPS to find a group! I say this all this as a MT in TBC and WLK, I seen it all! It was so toxic and before LFG because of the achievements you couldn’t get into dungeons without achievements which made it worse for new players or people levelling alts. And this wasn’t even solved with LFG because you would have tanks and healers asking everyone to link their achievements to say they cleared the dungeon because they wanted to clear the dungeon in 10-15minutes and if you didn’t: Group kick or they would leave.
I played Vanilla, TBC and played all expansions. WLK was the beginning of the end and LFG was a HUGE part of that.
You’re all going to see this and the numbers are going to reflect it. I called it in TBC, I’m calling it now in WLK.
Vanilla: Best MMO ever made. Raids needed some work but world building, levelling, alts, the faction v faction dynamic: It was the best we’ve ever had in a game. Period.
TBC: The best raiding content but completely butchered the game world and faction v faction not to mention faction balance(BE were overpowered and stupidly pretty); there was zero reason to ever leave Outland and go to Azeroth unless to level up an alt. The raids in Azeroth were made completely pointless to play through(They should have at least been upped in difficulty to at least offer an optional challenge and decent enough gear alongside Kz/Gruul and SSC to keep them relevant)
WLK: Worst raids, worst game mechanics, no reason to go back to Outland or Azeroth… Terrible through and through.
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Sounds like you don’t like wotlk.
You don’t enjoy the raids, dungeons, class mechanics, class updates…
Maybe, play a version of the game you do like (or petition for it, us wotlk players support tbc severs) rather than trying to change wotlk into vanilla ++.
Seems unfair that you got to relive your version of the game, but you are trying to deny us ours.
The best flavour of icecream for many of us is wotlk.
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I just think they should copy paste the retail premade group finder into classic. It’s way neater than the thing that currently exists in classic. Minus of course the M+ score and ilvl display ofc.
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lololol. Yea I know. WTS boost SM 10g per run. WTB boost ST. And here ends your social interaction in TBC classic right now.
If you make gold by selling boosts I can understand you dont want LFD but we are not stupid to buy your “social” argument… Its not 2004 anymore, its 2022.
Also, yea sure… give me old class design, old zones, old leveling, old professions and old endgame system with badges/valor with newest QoL features like crafting from bank, transmog, RDF, etc and call it retail or tailre whatever I dont care.
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Are you trolling or just plain, old stupid?
I return that to you… which is more obvious
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I actually find it quite a reasonable stance. A lot of people seem to think that the main reasons for preferring Classic to retail are “social interaction”, the inconveniences and all that stuff. But they don’t seem to realize that the class design, the zones, the leveling experience, the professions and the endgame cycles , among other things, are vastly different too.
When I tried BFA, for example, what made me quit before even reaching max level had nothing to do with friggin social interaction. It was more a combination of:
- Me disliking the classes I were playing, for how flavorless they felt compared to their old versions (paladin, shaman)
- Me disliking the leveling experience because of scaling zones, botched itemization, theme-park feel of quest zones, and inconsistent flavor between zones (I counted at least 3-4 different Horde warchiefs across 70-80 levels of play, and not in a chronological kind of way).
So… yeah. That’s a large part of why I’m tired of “hearing it” from people who’ve been playing Retail for years. They just don’t seem to have the same perspective as people who, like me, have barely touched it and are mostly familiar with the Classic versions of the game (from back then, and from pservers).
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For me it’s all of it … and actually not primarily the social thing. I get this via guild, and that’s the only place where Classic and Retail are the same for me.
I never played p-servers, and have been waiting for Vanilla restart ever since it was not yet thought anywhere.
I stopped playing Retail for roughly the reasions you mention here, classes being flavourless ,all the same, and generally dull; scaling zones, and all that jazz.
For long I tried to make up for it by doing the IronMan Challenge. But then shared kills, and botched up re-scaling of mobs and mashed up professions made even that no fun.
As I stopped playing in early BfA I even did not experience the worst of it I think. My argument then was the same as it is now: “Pretty views and awesome graphics do not make up for immersion, excitement and gameplay,”
And by gameplay I mean
- No questhelper not in my map (as it was introduced in Wrath), nor in my minimap or elsewhere. .
- No “Things begin at max level”.
- None of those things called “Quality of life”, and which actyually is just the game thinking for you. No Quality in these for me, but the opposite.
- Professions that means something an is not like cooking/ fishing turned to in BfA. YUCK!
Cooking in Battle for Azeroth is just a money sink. For most of the recipes you just need two mats which you get by pointing your weapon at the water (aka fishing) and squish the oil of two fish. Yes it doesn’t matter which fish, any old fish will do. Then you go and buy mats for 5 G (a heap of flour, berries, honey, coffee etc) Fills up your bags and slims your wallet.
There’s nothing to it any longer. It’s maybe a tell tale sign of how little value Blizz puts in Cooking, Alchemy etc. that you can not follow your progress in Armory any longer.
If Classic should be turned into this parody of a game once again, I’m off - sadly, reluctantly - but off.
I mean, some of these are debatable - I’ve never been a fan of “figure this out by yourself” exploratory gameplay, and so I don’t mind using addons like Questie to show me what I’m supposed to do with quests and such. I also believe that the best part of the game is at max level. But I can sympathize with most of these nonetheless. Even if I enjoy the max level experience the most, for example, the leveling experience is still supposed to be enjoyable - if I can’t fall in love with my class and gameplay while leveling, then I’ll end up dropping the game before I even get to max level in the first place.
My point was more that what Retail (as in a negative sense) means to people is different depending to whom you ask to. RDF isn’t “Retail” for me, for example, nor is flying, dailies or whatnot. To some ppl it seems to be. At the end of the day, people should play the version of WoW they prefer. The way the team is trying to cater to everyone (by removing TBC and forcing everyone into WotLK, by changing WotLK to be more similar to Vanilla/TBC, etc) makes me feel like they’re making the same mistake they made before re-launching Classic.
People talk all the time about “fracturing the playerbase”, but this playerbase is large enough that you could split it two, three, ten times over and still have enough players to keep a certain version of WoW alive. instead, by trying to cater to everyone, they’re only going to risk losing chunks along the way.
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And for me that’s one of the core features of WoW. So addons are good. They let you do it how you like it and leave me free to do it how I like it by not installing them. When they become part of the UI my fun is spoiled.
And I love the levelling and getting rep, maxing out proffesions etc. WHILE levelling - not only when I reach max 
YES!
and the way they like.
I could not have said it better myself!
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Honest couriosity: Which mistake?
The original mistake was the basic expansion system. From Vanilla to TBC to WotLK without being able to stick to a certain version of the game.
This kind of system worked, mostly, as long as expansions mostly focused on changes that were, for the most part, “fixes” to the original game. This is not to say that you can’t prefer Vanilla to TBC or WotLK but, back then, it was a very reasonable assumption that people who liked the game back in Vanilla could still like it in TBC and WotLK, because the game fundamentals were largely unchanged and most changes had the goal of fixing up the shortcomings of the game, under various aspects (classes, progression, PvP etc).
However, from Cataclysm onwards, a trend started where they began to change things not to “fix” perceived shortcomings of the original game, but to “keep things fresh”. This is most apparent when it comes to classes, but it’s a PoV that progressively permeated the entire game development. It should be plain obvious that, if you change the game just for the heck of it rather than to amend it in some way, some ppl will not like the changes.
In short, Classic launch should’ve happened MUCH sooner than 2019. Maybe the overall amount of ppl playing the game would have been different if they did.
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I totally agree. Thanks for explaining.
I’m sorry, but despite disagreeing with you, I’m not saying your opinion is pathetic. I’m not here to annoy people. I understand what’s your point, and I respect it, try to do the same with mine without going that route, please.
I’m just saying that there’re 2 products, 1 for each kind of player. There’s retail for today’s people with 2022’s culture of immediate and the need of granting everyone to be able to complete 99.9% of the stuff no matter their skills, effort, or time available. And there’s Classic for those old-schoolers who prefer a slower pace, carerully taste each bit of content they play no matter if they don’t complete the game, and enjoy those small gratifications.
Don’t know if you remember, but after Nostalrius’ closure, the first proposal from Blizzard, J Allen Brack himself, were “Pristine Servers”: a copy of retail, but without heirlooms, dungeon finders, and a bit harder content. Remember that, back then, one wasn’t able of casting a single spell, only instant ones during most dungeon runs, which were ALL dungeon runs if we were talking about leveling ones. As we all know, that wasn’t enough, and that led to WoW Classic (Vanilla).
The demand of playing past expansions as they were back then is pretty much (TBC? WotLK? I don’t really know) as old as the game (obvious mention Brack again and his infamous “You think you do, but you don’t”), and it’s one if the main points of Classic, but not the only one and here is where the Pristine component pops in: Classic is more than a mere “2nd trip to retail”, it’s a different experience, for a different type of player, and a different way to enjoy a game that you can’t find at retail. A “no-RDF WotLK” wouldn’t stop it from being WotLK, and (if coming without heirlooms) would keep the spirit of WoW Classic, however WotLK Classic releasing dungeon finder mid way would make it the most WotLK of all, but would completely ruin the WoW Classic experience in the “Pristine” sense.
In WoW Classic, the point was avoiding the core content to be a chore, making it relevant again, paying attention to details, reading quest texts so knowing why are you killing those dudes, being able to locate the dungeon you’re in inside the world map, people talking each other to have strats and buffing because otherwise it would be impossible to beat regular content, looking for a group to kill Hogger, because things like that were fun to do and awarded personal gratification, even if it were the 100th time you were doing it. WotLK was an expansion with excellent content but, at the same time, it was the beginning of the end of all that.
The reason why Classic started with Vanilla could be as obvious as because it was the first version of the game. But what triggered the creation of Classic was the enormous poularity and the consequences of the closure of a Vanilla private server. Not a TBC or a WotLK one. A server filled with people sacrificing the epic of Illidan, the Lich King, or Ulduar because of looking for that old kind of experience. Once finished, and in order to go on with the trip, TBC was the logical move. As I’ve implied, the experience itself it’s a bit below in that regard (flying at lv60, a bit ugly welcome to Outland through HF Peninsula, little new zones in comparison with the previous 2 big continents…), but it’s still very close and better than getting stuck in the same patch forever or restarting. And then, after that, WotLK: as opposed to the Vanilla>BC transition, the changes introduced by Wrath that enlarged the distance with the original Classic experience are mostly easily fixable, jut about disabling 2 features, and wouldn’t cause to break the game neither would be as traumatic as, for example, disabling lv60 flying in TBC.
TL;DR: Classic is here to offer a different experience, not just an encouragement to play different content to retail, but also a different way to enjoy the game. RDF (and heirlooms) would cause the two games to unnecesarily start overlapping.
Most players playing classic expansions just dont like retail wow. Its not primarily about nostalgia, but about being able to play a good game for once. I voted for the survey after Nostalrius was closed too, but with wotlk in mind. Everyone has his/her preference and in the end the most popular expansion was and is wotlk. While I respect your opinion, that you like vanilla the most, you should also acknowledge that wotlk and retail arent similar enough to even consider using “just go to retail if you want any features after vanilla”.
In my opinion, we should have at least one seasonal and “permanent” server for each expansion, so every player can play their favorite expansion. If Blizzard was capable of making a better game, id be glad, but I can assure you the more changes they do to wotlk, the worse the outcome will be.
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