I really feel bad for everyone who chose a class that can’t tank. This really means you can’t get invited to groups. When I make an M+ group on average I have to turn down 8-10 dpss, not because I want to, but because my slots are full. And you think covenants will have an effect? Bruh. All your frustrations that you’re venting out here are because you’re playing a pure dps class and you already know you just have to wait for half an hour to just get a dungeon going. That when someone makes a raid in the group finder, they’ll get 200 dpss and 3 tanks to apply.
Dude you were literally saying the other week that you cant get into something over a +11 and you playing “muh tank” spec, you only completed your first 15 this week on “muh tank spec”. I havent had any issue whatsoever getting into the dungeon i want on the difficulty i want, you know why ? Because i play the game i dont complain that “hur durr raider io bad” i level up my own keys and i dont go “Maaan 4 dungeons is too much to get me to the point i want to be”, as for raids granted i have the priveledge that no other class has… sum stone and HSs and you know my parces arent grey. So next expansion then you come here crying that “i cant get into a +12 because i dont have the venthyr teleport and people are jerks because they want to skip, CHANGE M+” i will sit here on my chair smile and reply to you
I didn’t say any of that. I said I do +11 and +12 because that’s fine. I can’t be bothered to level up my own key, I’m not doing SoTS+12 with these affixes. Hate bolstering. I guess you just can’t grasp that someone won’t be hassled by the game. If the game isn’t fun, I’ll just refuse to play it, that’s all. I really don’t get how many people can play an MMO that frustrates them. I had quit the game for 2/3 of BFA’s lifecycle. I just come in the beginning of a patch, play for a month, get bored an quit. Why would anyone take this expansion seriously? The reason I don’t do +15s is that I don’t care enough to run boring keys. My disposition is that if I get a key I just don’t want to run, that’s dungeons done for the week. I have other things to play, I can’t be spending time in a game being annoyed.
Because that is the fundamental idea behind the covenant choice. When the game designer in an interview says that choice behind what covenant to pick should feel like choosing between a mage or a hunter, how can you say that we shouldn’t compare them to classes?
Also how is this:
Different from this:
“Thematically I like Warlocks and feel like it would fit my personality, but I don’t like their gameplay feel, but BM hunters gameplay is amazing, but I don’t want to be a hunter, I hate their theme and personality. So do I spend 2 years being a hunter and hate my choice from an RP perspective but enjoy the gameplay in SOME parts of the game where they work, or choose warlock and have a horrible time playing the game because I hate their abilities, although it works where the hunter doesn’t, but the RP kinda works for me.”
No competly get it and its fine if you dont want to do those things, its not fine when whine on the forums because you cant be bothered to do the work. And before you say im doing the same things about covenants, its a completly different ball park. The reason i am complaining is that i have seen how BfA played out (and yes there has been segregation to specific tanks/healers/dps, there have been groups that have wanted you to link your corruptions), I have been pretty vocal in how much i dont like the systems in BfA, but here is the difference i still did them and if SL hits in the shape its in i will still complain but i will still do them. The enjoyment i get from the core gameplay will outweigh the displeasure of me doing the systems. I whine about covenants because i dont want to have this corruption like effect that in order to enjoy myslef i have to do the dishes everyday in WoW, i dont want this BS reasoning from Blizzard that “we want to reward players that focus on one spec by punishing the ones that play all of their spec”, i dont want to be sub-optimal in content because of a stupid RP choise, and i dont want hang out with the pixie furries becuase i want to parce well in raids.
Also your tank spec does not give you immunity, i have a friend that is a 475+ prot pally io score around 2500 he still gets declined for +15s because “lol you are not a prot warrior and you cant pull of the snap pulls correctly”.
Because said game desgner has said many things in interviews that have been disproven shortly after. Remember how warfronts were going to be this epic battle that would be simmilar to the RTS, look how fun and engaging those turned out to be, or how “interactive” the corruptions are, please tell me how much fun you had in deciding between IS r3 and TD r3 before the vendor. So when Ion says “oh they are sub-classes” they are not, they are not an extention of your class, they will be gone in 10.0 Azhara boogaloo.
This is where we are fundamentally different. I refused to participate in 8.3 systems because I hate the core gameplay. I hate horrific visions, I hate what high corruption stacking does to your character. Also if the game is bad I’ll just quit. I really can’t be bothered these days. There’s so many games to play. I’m looking forward to the core of Shadowlands because it looks like it’ll be fun - the dungeons look great, all covenants will offer different gameplay which I like a lot.
At this stage I’m waiting to see how things fold out during beta. Blizzard has said they have the option to make covenants freely swapable but they want to see how they play out first. So far the reactions from the private realm that Blizz let a few people play on (not the alpha) seem very positive.
By core gameplay i mean dungeons and raids, almost no one likes HVs.
Thats my issue, i want to enjoy the dungeons, and yet i dont want to be hindered by the fact i chose to play a Raid covenant. How is this so hard to understand. I have said this 10 times already i dont like to eat my soup with a fork its frustrathing and it gets everywhere.
But it doesn’t look like there will be a “dungeon” covenant or a “raid covenant” or whatever. There’s so much balancing still to be done. So far there is one that is above and beyond literally every other one with that teleport.
At the core, I really, really enjoy these types of choices, where you have to weigh multiple options against one another, and each option has its own multiple axes and you have to decide what you want. It’s not a choice between one or two, it’s a real, actual choice. This is interesting and brave and I want the game to be interesting.
BFA hasn’t had any interesting choices. It’s all about what is objectively better. That’s how mobile MMOs are designed. If Blizz wants to actually put a PC MMO feature in their PC MMO I kinda have to support them. A game that gives you everything isn’t a good game. It’s a slot machine and I am so happy that Blizz is stepping away from this design.
“I don’t enjoy this, therefore it doesn’t matter, everyone who enjoys it is an idiot and should not be allowe to enjoy it, all becuase I do not”.
If you choose the warlock class, you can be affliction, destruction or demonology. You can change between these specs freely and they will change how the CLASS plays, feels and works, fundamentally. Each spec has talents which can be changed freely and have the potential to change how the SPEC plays, feels and works, dramatically. Now that’s a pure DPS class, you also have classes that have all 3 roles in their spec options. Those change the classes even further than just on the specialization level. Don’t take what the designers say at face value… think about it. They’ve been wrong many times before, they’ve been told they were wrong and they chose to keep being wrong until it was too late. And they are once again wrong now.
If I have a both a hunter and a warlock at max level, I can play a warlock, get bored of it and swap to hunter without having to do a lengthy weeks long questline to do it. Besides, I can play both classes, keep them somewhat up to date and relevant with minimal effort and experience all of their specs without much hassle.
The problem is that now, you can play multiple classes and specs freely at the same time and swap to whatever you feel like or need at the time, unless you’re sginificantly behind on that character. But if you like a Venthyr warlock in dungeons and a Necrolord warlock in raids, you now need two warlock characters. Great, another reason why locking covenant abilities is a terrible idea. You can’t get a full experience of a single class without having multiple characters of the same class. It doesn’t just hurt your main, it hurts alt experience too.
Are you serious ? Have you seen the abillities ? I am not going to copy/paste them here so feel free to check them out on official site.
This cant be balanced you potato, its 144 “sub-classes”, they cant balance 36 specs , hell they cant balance the 6 tanks that we have.
Ok ill put it like this imagine that the perforamance diffence between each of the 144 “subclasses” is 1% and that beeing very generous, now how much is going to be the difference from the worst one ( for arguments sake lets say Necrolord Survival Hunter) to the best one (Venthyr Havok Dh). So you are ok with VHDh doing 144% more dps than a NSH ?
Sorry but as it is right know the designers should simply not talk, as long as they don’t know what they’re doing right now. It’s the same BfA s.h.i.t.-show again, and we’ll hear after 6-12months “covenants didn’t work as expected”…
Just a few design flaws:
Covenantabilities don’t work with most of the hybrid class players, who are switching roles regulary (both Soulbinds + Abilities)
BiS-Covenantability and BiS-Soulbind can be on the same covenant (no compensation via Soulbinds)
Conduitgems are bound to colors and grant more power than Soulbindtraits
Designers have a great reputation on failing to balance classes (best example current raid/arena/m+ situation)
In Legion they gave every spec its own sub class and everyone loved it. Mate, covenants are nothing new. Again, I’ll say - the main reason I am excited for them is that BFA is basically a mobile MMO. It even has autocombat.
Shadowlands is trying to bring depth back, they want to give us complex choices with multiple paths and each choice contains more choices within itself and that is basically what I want out of an MMO.
Nobody still hasn’t explained to me how a covenant is different from your choice in class. You all just scoff at me but nobody can explain it to me. If people cared about being invited to places everyone would play classes with tank or healer specs. When I do dungeons as a tank, it takes me around 20 seconds to get into an m+.
I really don’t care about performance percentages and hypothetical math. Nobody cares about that. People still play rogues even if they never get invited to dungeons, people still play shamans (I know a shocker), people still play warlocks even if their only purpose is to summon people in a raid. You have already made a choice that makes it easier or harder to find content.
And I don’t even think you make choices based on whatever you think you base your choices on. Because if you cared about being a meta boy where 1% difference matters, you wouldn’t play warlock. If you wanted to dps, you’d be playing a fire mage, or maybe an arms warrior. Meanwhile you’re playing a class that does 14% less damage. So you already have established you’re willing to deal with a 14% power gap. Fury warrior is below even the warlock and it’s still more popular. There’s a lot that goes into player choice and it’s not just about mathematics and percentages. Not everyone plays flavor of the month, in fact most people don’t.
The abilities are in most cases so fundamentally different that they can’t even begin to attemp to balance them.
Let’s say, in a somewhat realistic shooter game, you wouldn’t want to take a rocket launcher to a shootout inside a bulding and you probably wouldn’t want to use a revolver to kill someone 2 miles away. But imagine you had to make a choice between a the rocker launcher and the revolver at the start of the game, but then half the time you would be sniping and the other half would be a in a bulding. See the issue here? If you pick the revolver, you will be useless at sniping but you might be fairly effective inside buildings. With a rocket launcher, sniping is stupid, inside a building you would blow yourself up, but you will be able to destroy a rank IF it comes to it.
No in legion they gave everyone their ownt Artefact weapon, wou could not weild the ashbringer as protection paladin. The spec count didnt go up to 144 it stayed at 36. Thats the point, if am a destruction warlock i want to do what the other destruction warlocks do.
Good Ion quote there, now if only you could understand how the game actually works you would laugh at yourself.
It has been explained to you, you just keep moving the goal post and argument to “but i can tank” .
Clearly you dont.
Op in dungeons
Insane healing
Insane Dps.
How many sub rogues have you seen in PvE? How many Arms warriors did you see before corruptions?
Did i ever say i chose my class because of the meta. No i dont think i did. I said that i build my class according to the meta. Huge difference between class and build. Here is you stupid explanation to covenants i get to choose what class i play and i get to build it how ever i want meta or not. now i have to choose the way i can build my class and i cant change it afterwords.
Lets do a warlock on warlock talk here for our “friend” here shall we.
Take our kyrian ability (the one that generates 5 soul shards) in all our 3 specs. So what does 5 shards mean really ? Well for destro its 2.5 chaos bolts (5 if you havoc) , for Affliction its 5 Malific ruptures where dmg varies for for the number of targets that it hits and for demo its 5 demons (3 ims and 2 dreadstalkers). Imagine the balancing nightmare on that XD.
Blizzard could play safe, but that would be boring.
I like the fact they continue to experiment with new types of systems… Just not so many in one go like BFA, Corruptions, Azerite empowerments, essences etc, etc.
This I think will be fun. And it is still a choice and is up to you what you value the most, numbers or what will be more fun… You may find that both are mutual.
I’m seeing how people on the forums say the game works, and then I log in and the reality of how people play has nothing in common with the fiction you’re writing here.
