You will regret covenants

[Elias-drakthul]

If you want to spent 5 hours looking for players with right covenants, right soulbind, talents, legendaries and spec to run 1 dungeon then keep wasting your time. I will take nonoptimal players and run 5 dungeons instead. Yeah we migh be bit slower than proper min maxed group but it definitly wont be immpossible to clear out content while being nonoptimal.

No mention that optimal covenants will change per dungeon basis, from boss to boss, from spec to spec, etc… GL finding players with such demands.

[Rondakungfu-stormscale]

@Aloy-steamwheedle-cartel

Though I am casual last years, I believe I have the experience to understand MMO game systems

Its not even out, you played MMO for 20 years and you “know”

@Aloy-steamwheedle-cartel

“its still beta” and blindly trust that things will be fixed and be ok on release are more often if not always wrong.

Fixed? There is nothing broken since we have limited knowledge of what is going on, yet the whiner parade goes right after the expert parade on the forums.

I tend to play a game and find it bad or good, reading an article is not an MMO experience. You should know that in your 20 years career ^^

[Weffi-kilrogg]

what they actualy talked about in the announcment today, that this will not be the case and they will fix it, so the gap is not like 30% better or so.

I also think people are going totaly crazy for no true reasons yet, considering beta starts next week, and then people actualy gets to try out the covenants to se how they are, if people then start to actualy give real feedback, it can be changed.

but then again, even if 1miljon gets in to a bet, like 10k maby does something relevant, rest plays the game, or tries to find just the best things they can use when game launches, and never give any feedback at all, some even try to find exploits they then can use to get an advantage.

[Weffi-kilrogg]

then again, why bother to listen to those wanabe elites, there is, who pic the best there is, and then the best gets nerfed and they cry on forums again, what will happen if Blizzard notice something is to popular and to strong.
you probably do not need to care what covenant you take, until half way in to the 3rd raid tier anyways, becuse then it might be more balanced.

offcourse those who realy like to min max, let them do it, but theese people should also not try to dictate what others do, instead play whit like minded people.

[Shihiroki-kirin-tor]

@Popgligor-kazzak

EDIT: I just wanted to stress - mechanical complexity is artificial complexity. MMOs are about the meta stuff (not as in flavor of the month, but the more transcendant mechanics). You can have an MMO that has incredibly simple rotations and still make it interesting. Lineage 2 is still the best MMO I’ve played and there you only use skills when they’re needed, otherwise it is auto-attack city. Every button press is meaningfull. In WoW it’s not.

Ok, so if the gameplay is boring (that’s my opinion : a slow gameplay and having dead time in rotation is boring in my mind) then how do people would be engaged. I mean, if wow remained a RPG like it was back in vanilla and BC, then it would be a boring game. Wow, I thought that skill is what makes us proud and create satisfaction, not just “doing right choices”.

@Popgligor-kazzak

It’s not about pressing the buttons, that’s just basic monkey see monkey do stuff.

Well, if you randomly press buttons, you’re not gonna do much in modern wow…

[Shihiroki-kirin-tor]

@Bjornson-nordrassil

I do not want to pick a covenant based on roleplaying and being told it is not the right covenant for my intended role/spec/content

Is that too much to ask?

Easy fix : Just make covenant cosmetics only

[Popgligor-kazzak]

@Shihiroki-kirin-tor

Ok, so if the gameplay is boring (that’s my opinion : a slow gameplay and having dead time in rotation is boring in my mind)

Sekiro has the best combat in any game ever and does it with 4 buttons, only one of which is an actual attack button. Devil May Cry has 2 attack buttons. Mechanical complexity doesn’t mean all that much. It’s about buttons mattering, not about having to memorize a string of numbers in order. I don’t think rotation-based gameplay is fun at all. It’s just pressing buttons, with zero thought and barely any reaction. It cannot be fun by definition. For a combat to be fun and action-y, you need to be reacting, not pressing 4,2,3,4,5,2,4,1,3,4,(ctrl+r)2,3,4,5,2,4,1,3,4. That’s not fun.

[Feanor-steamwheedle-cartel]

@Popgligor-kazzak

Sekiro has the best combat in any game ever

I hate that cursed monkey I HATE HIM WITH A PASSION!!

[Weffi-kilrogg]

just an idea, maby try it out your selfs, before going all berserk and doomsaying, theese posts are so gringe at times, when none realy knows how things pan out, but still they have to come here and whine about things, they realy do not know how it is gona pan out yet at all.

kind of same how some says, the legion legendary system was good, when it didnt work at all hehe.
I am not gona say theese new system is gona be good or bad, until the game has been out for 6 months then we know, not even beta is gona tell us how it will be in the long term.

[Feanor-steamwheedle-cartel]

As a death metal fan it’s maldraxxus or bust! for my main
raiding and stats be damned!

[Ryura-defias-brotherhood]

You do realize that both those games rely on combo systems? So while you say that you “only” use 4 or so buttons, in reality there are an enormous amounts of way you can use those 4 buttons, which is actually more than just 4, wow does not work like that.

I did not respond to you earlier, but honestly, you dishonesty here, was just staggering, so much that i just had to respond.

Also sekiro and dmc rely on not only combos, but also timing, wow is not exactly like that, you do not have a few buttons to press that do a lot, you have a lot of abilities that do 1 thing, so to have a game like sekiro they would have to completely remake the game, and guess what, that isn’t gonna happen.

The only thing i agree with is that you do not necessarily need a lot of abilities to make a good rotation, which is a point i think you made before.

Also, zero thought and barely any rection is just wrong, but hey that kind of mentality is reflected by your parses on wow logs.

So i guess we can see for ourselves what happens, when you don’t think about which abilities to use, because rotational gameplay just does not involve that. Yea sure man. Just like pretty much every other game, you don;t just do your rotation and that’s it, you also have to keep in mind that you are fighting a boss, in dmc you may get all kinds of cool combos when you are training in the void, but when you actually have to fight someone that fights back, the results might not be identical.

That’s the difference between a good and a bad player, so while you say that you do not think that rotational gameplay is difficult, or had challenge, well, the actual data disagrees with you, because otherwise you would at least have purple or above parses, but you do not, so you don’t have the privilege to spout such bs.

[Naxxos-azjolnerub (Naxxos)]

@Weffi-kilrogg

what they actualy talked about in the announcment today, that this will not be the case and they will fix it, so the gap is not like 30% better or so.

I hope they do I really do but 15 years of history says otherwise, Blizzard have NEVER balanced a single system. This time they are going for 4-5 that stack on each other, it could be a total cluster-fudge.

They were warned about Azurite, the Crucible in Legion, Legion Legendaries at the alpha/beta/ptr stages but they failed to listen, fobbed it off as ‘doomsaying’ and look what the result was. It is clear Shadowlands Blizzard have learnt from their treatment of feedback in BfA and are listening to alot of things, sadly when it comes to the one thing that could totally kill SL they (at the moment) seem to be stubbornly doubling down on a bad idea.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

This poll is quite interesting…

https://twitter.com/Asmongold/status/1280920891631829000?s=20

[Ryura-defias-brotherhood]

Yes, and all of those have 1 thing in common, 2 actually, the first is blizzard unwillingness to actually listen to people who provided feedback, the second is that it was easily solvable, imagine if we got the legendary catchup system since the start of legion, now, wouldn’t that have been nice?

Actually 3 things in common, the 3rd is people who say, it’s just alpha, it’s just beta, oh damn, it released, and everything went according to what was said, what a surprise, would have never guessed…

All of this trouble for some vague “but muh rpg, choices matter” thing.

Well, if i were to choose to run venthir in a dungeon and kyrian in a raid, is that not a choice? Well, that is not the point, because the real point is not about choice, it’s about an ideal, but hey that ideal is purely subjective, but the troubles it brings are objective, when you cannot perform to the same level as another person, and it’s not just 1 or 2 %, that is not subjective. And also, what if i really want to try another covenant ability because iv’e kinda gotten tired of what i have at the moment? I can’t, because “choices should matter” wow, thanks man, really happy with that…

And you know what’s even worse than that? To the people who say things like choices should matter, you could do that just fine with my type of system, again, this is not about choice, it’s about an ideology of how the game should be. I’m gonna enforce what i want because i like it this way, even though it brings a lot of trouble, and even though, i could do just the same, even if the covenants were not locked.

[Moselle-argent-dawn]

Covenants will fail

[Bjornson-nordrassil]

@Weffi-kilrogg

just an idea, maby try it out your selfs, before going all berserk and doomsaying, theese posts are so gringe at times, when none realy knows how things pan out, but still they have to come here and whine about things, they realy do not know how it is gona pan out yet at all.

kind of same how some says, the legion legendary system was good, when it didnt work at all hehe.
I am not gona say theese new system is gona be good or bad, until the game has been out for 6 months then we know, not even beta is gona tell us how it will be in the long term.

Allow me to imply that one just needs to know the players and not the system to know how things will unfold.

This moment about the axe racial for orcs on this parody video describes it best

Struggles of Playing Classic [2]

[Mollbert-deathwing]

Imagine if we had none of crap and all the issues it brought along. Instead we had a lasting, good and balanced system that could sustain progress through expansions.

[Emje-draenor]

@Mollbert-deathwing

good and balanced system that could sustain progress through expansions.

This, again and again this

[Popgligor-kazzak]

@Ryura-defias-brotherhood

That’s the difference between a good and a bad player, so while you say that you do not think that rotational gameplay is difficult, or had challenge, well, the actual data disagrees with you, because otherwise you would at least have purple or above parses, but you do not, so you don’t have the privilege to spout such bs

My parses are trash not because I don’t know Fury, but because I can’t be arsed to sim my gear and I also just stopped caring about corruptions. My cloak isn’t fully upgraded and I keep my corruption low because I hate the system. It hurts my dps, obviously but I don’t care. BFA is just hard to take seriously. I might do it now, cuz I’m bored. Yesterday I did my first +15 for the season, that’s how little I care. It was easy, because of course it was. Pulled my weight, was always first or second in dps. If I continue with the +15s, I’m sure my parses will become purple rather quick.

My whole point is that every button press should feel meaningful and unique and you don’t need complexity to have something fun. You shouldn’t have filler buttons. This is an issue especially with warrior, as so many skills have similar visual and audio effects, they feel like autoattack. I love fury, but damn, dragon roar is just a pathetic button to press. Siegebreaker doesn’t feel like you’re breaking someone’s armor, it feels like you’re just whacking them with your stick. DH is another particularly bad because their first ability doesn’t even feel like you’re hitting someone. It feels more like a jump, and this is your main ability. It’s why I quit DH - not that the combat was simple, it was fine, but that the skills just feel weak.

And my other point is that WoW isn’t about action and there’s many ways a combat can be interesting. I think the game is becoming too fast for its own good. You can have turn based combat that is interesting. I’m not saying WoW should be turn based lmao, but I AM saying you can have slow and engaging combat and I think this would be where WoW would shine. I don’t mind fast combat, Sekiro is one of my favorite games, but I don’t think that speed is fit for WoW.

[Amonet-stormrage]

@Popgligor-kazzak

My parses are trash not because I don’t know Fury, but because I can’t be arsed to sim my gear and I also just stopped caring about corruptions.

And you think that the covenant stuff is going to be different from corruptions, azerite and essenses ? Pls explain to me how having a complex borrowed power system yet again is going to stop siming.