The blood elves never genocided them. That was all the humans with their mages. The Amani are our best chance to get back at the alliance. We need to work together to fight a common enemy that has plagued both sides for far too long.
Exactly because Zul’Aman is already in Quel’thalas I don’t see it as a major victory and gain of lands if the Amani joined the Horde, anyway…the Revantusk in Hinterlands have a greater potential in this case, and closer to the lands of the Alliance so in Erevien’s logic this should be better.
P.S. that video about Zul’jin I think it’s made primarely for comic relief (as you can see from the pic of a High Elf offering Zul’jin a flower while they are torturing him ) and heavily on the side of Forest Trolls to make them symphatetic anyway, but Erevien is right in this case, the ancestors of the Blood Elves should not be considered genocidal. Trespassers and invaders yes, but you have to admit that the Amani always attacked first and they never attempted diplomacy anyway. And the Humans were the ones who eventually burned them alive in the Troll Wars, because there was no other way to stop their huge numbers really.
Just like the Orcs-Night Elves situation in Ashenvale (and the problem about who attacked first there too), Blizzard left enough room to depict the defenders of their lands in both cases (Amani and Night Elves) to have their own blames about what happened to their territory, the blame is not just on who trespassed first (High Elves and Orcs)
Yes but even in this case, the Amani attacked first. They realised the High Elves had lost a huge portion of population because of the Undead so right before TBC they attacked the Blood Elves first and gained a portion of Eversong and Ghostlands. Eventually the Blood Elves get most of it back though, with the help of the Horde too.
My point of it all was that there is no way the Amani and Blood elves would ever be allied. There is too much bad blood between the two.
The guy who made it loves talking about lore, but he always adds some comedy in there which is why I love watching his videos about lore. The comedy doesn’t take away the lore aspect. Just makes it more entertaining to watch. The animation shown is also excellent, as if living with the story.
That is true. To be fair they make great rivals. Blood elf lore would be boring without the rivalry with the Amani. One of my favorite villains is Zul’jin, my name gives it away.
Their are reasons for that where I do sympathize with the Trolls because we need to look at this from their perspective.
The main reason for the extreme hostility between the Amani and the Highborne descendants is due to Queen Azshara. She told the Trolls not to invade her lands anymore - with how the Amani reacted, I suspect they were invading the North Eastern parts of the her Empire. They knew they couldn’t beat her so they also angrily accepted Azshara’s terms.
Now, years later - former followers of her, come once again to the Amani lands, seemingly demanding that they be allowed to move here.
I don’t think the fault is with the Amani. More fault goes towards the Elves and specifically, Queen Azshara.
If she wanted, Queen Azshara could have killed them all, so the Amani wouldn’t exist anymore if Azshara didn’t want them around anymore (just like later Zul’Aman wouldn’t have existed anymore if the High Elves didn’t want it around anymore after the Troll Wars or Second War, just like now if the Blood Elves ordered constant raids against the Amani, especially with the support of their Horde allies (especially the Zandalari to make them submit to the Horde faster), and the High Elves of Vereesa who would help with that too).
So the Amani - and Trolls in general- should understand that both Queen Azshara and King Anasterian -and Lor’themar now- had the power to wipe them out completely, but they didn’t, and they choose to strike deals with them, or to just keep them at bay despite the Amani constantly proved to be an aggressive threat during the years.
(and as you said yourself, Queen Azshara told that to the Trolls because they were the ones invading the North Eastern parts of her empire, so EVEN in this case they are the aggressive ones who attacked the Elves first. Just like what’s happening now with war between nations in real life, if you act aggressively and attack another one, then you don’t get to complain if the defender defeats you or use too much power in order to defeat you, causing a genocide…because you are the one who attacked first)
and the only ones who are not under this rule are Jungle Trolls, because for example the Darkspears were attacked by Kul Tiras without provocation. But Forest Trolls, Ice Trolls, Sand Trolls are almost always the ones who start the hostilities with the Elves, or even with the rest of the world. Even the Zandalari have acknowledged this, and both Rastakhan and Talanji said that the behaviour of the lesser and more savage troll tribes need to be controlled or could become a threat for Zandalar too, not just for the rest of the world.
Well technically, the Trolls were invading Night Elf land which must not have been anything substantial as Azshara only saw them as a petty annoyance.
But she being the person she was and still is, they were a petty annoyance who needed boundaries. Uninterested in conquering the trolls, which the queen saw as a minor nuisance at best, she allowed the Zandalari to keep their sacred Zandalar Mountains in exchange for ending troll incursions into kaldorei territory
But even so - the hostility between elf and troll dates back to Queen Azshara’s rule and her Highborne. Their descendants in the High Elves and Blood Elves are also part of that.
We don’t know how the Trolls view the Nightborne as they were once part of Azshara’s Elite Highborne.
Eh, having skipped most of the thread except like the last five posts.
Technically the trolls were just trying to recapture lands they lost to the Kaldorei Emire.
Also, the Kaldorei Empire conquered territories from all troll empires, hence the hatred between trolls and elves in general (while exceptions ofcourse do exist).
Trolls hate elves because they catptured their lands and murdered countless trolls.
Elves hate trolls because they would’ve genocided them given the chance and attempted to do so to multiple elven races (Kaldorei, high elves, blood elves).
Edit:
I would love (as a troll roleplayer) to have Zul’Aman, Zul’Gurub, Zul’Farrak and all troll (sub) races join the Horde. Alas it won’t happen ofcourse.
I doubt Queen Azshara started it, I think it really started when the elves started to conquer and subjugate Kalimdor in their empire.
It’s ridiculous we got sand troll customisations before we got forest troll ones. Or that the Zandalari became a Allied Race instead of the Revantusk.
What most people mistake is that alot of areas in what would be, central and northern Kalimdor were actually uninhibited by Trolls. Locations such as Ashenvale, Felwood and Winterspring were lands unclaimed by the Troll tribes.
The ancestors of the Night Elves dwelled in the burrows of Mt Hyjal.
For the kaldorei, maybe after the Sundering, yes.
But during Azshara’s reign - no. If Azshara, the most powerful Mage to have lived, only saw the Trolls as a minor nuisance who needed boundaries only, then what sort of incursions were taking place and how far did the Trolls actually get?
The Trolls proved a problem for the Zin-Azshari descendants who founded Quel’Thalas.
My bad, I wasn’t talking about the unclaimed lands, but the Kaldorei empire did conquer/take large swathes of the various troll empires.
They took the majority of the Drakkari and Zandalari empires and massive swathes of the Amani and Gurubashi empires as seen in the Chronicles pictures.
I do not think Azshara’s opinion on how dangerous trolls are is valid. Especially since she’s never ever fought or set foot on a battlefield (as far as we know), nor did she live on the borders of her empire, nor did the empire under her rule conquer troll lands.
Azshara also saw the lowborne kaldorei as lesser biengs, we don’t take that as a fact either.
Two city-states doesn’t make an empire, sadly
We finally agree on something
Queen Talanji, with General Rokhan, would be good leaders of a reunited Troll Empire
But the question begs - how dangerous were these incursions anyway?
With the might of the Well of Eternity behind them, she knew she held all the cards. The Trolls knew she held all the cards.
We’re talking hypothetical now because we don’t know what/if their was any lasting damage to the kaldorei empire after the troll incursions. As far as my mind goes, if it isn’t documented and no major casualties were taken, then it wasn’t that big…unlike the Amani incursions into the High Elven villages, which are documented.
If we found out the Troll incursions caused the death of Lestharia Vashj and their was a Highborne vs Troll War and the leader of Vashj’ir lost her life in that battle, then we can go further but at this stage, we have very little to go on, barring a small passage of Azshara’s lore page. (Not even the Highborne or Night Elf lore pages.)
Rokhan stays, Voljin becomes the Loa of Kings after all
It’s not their choice. They will bow to the Zandalari or perish.
Maybe she thought so, but remember it took the might of the Well of Eternity and the Night Warriors of Elune to carve out their empire from the troll empires.
There’s no documented casualties for trolls or elves when the Kaldorei carved out their empires. I guarentee that many elves and trolls died during that four front war.
Honestly, I guess this is just a matter of interpretion at this point because as you say there’s barely anything documented.
For all we know the trolls captured or killed a lot of elves over the thousands of years, or none at all. Maybe vice versa we don’t know
) and heavily on the side of Forest Trolls to make them symphatetic anyway, but Erevien is right in this case, the ancestors of the Blood Elves should not be considered genocidal. Trespassers and invaders yes, but you have to admit that the Amani always attacked first and they never attempted diplomacy anyway. And the Humans were the ones who eventually burned them alive in the Troll Wars, because there was no other way to stop their huge numbers really.
