No one forces you to play an optimal talent that is a choice you make, To say you have NO CHOICE is not strictly true, No one forces you to select a talent if there more than 1 option available to you then it,s you who makes the choice NOT Blizzard, Now just because one is worse than the other is a Blizzard problem but to say you CANNOT choose the other is not true.
My argument is not tying player power to fantasy / aesthetics, because for majority of people power always trumps aesthetics. With aesthetics there is a real choice, with power there isnât.
That said, I do generally like the idea of regular talents as they provide ways to change your build. While there is still one build best, the build itself varies depending on what content you do, and classes that used to be garbage, because they were tuned around M+, now can be decent in PvP too.
Oh no youâve mistaken me.
You can choose the otherâŠ. You could also choose Necromancer Covenant as paladin. Why didnât you? 
because it was not optimal.
That was a choice too. What made it bad?
Oh because you couldnât swap thatâs right⊠same as if you donât want to play Eye of Tyr (which is bad I know) then you are forced to go lightforgeâŠ.
Or being forced to choose a specific talent path. Do you think eye of tyr is in the first row? Nope, itâs in the last 2 rows. So basically you have a talent path already mapped for you by the hero talent design.
No one really knows how these talents will work and the impact to the game yet, so until theyâre on PTR, thereâs no point worrying about it?
I am afraid I donât understand your point. Of course many will simply go for what is the strongest option for their class. However, that doesnât change that the issue in SL was the tie in. For many classes different covenants were best for different specs or even content. That was the issue. Which is why people would would have preferred the covenants at the time were an aesthetic choice with a freedom to choose the best âtalentsâ ie covenant abilities for our class, spec, content like a talent tree.
This time we donât have that issue because as far as Iâm aware you will be able to chop and change as necessary. Itâs essentially just an extension of the talent trees.
Not every single mistake made with covenants is present in this system.
But every single mistake in this system was already made with covenants.
Now that itâs clarified, can we move on?
I donât agree with your issue with the Hero Talents. Iâm not telling you, you canât feel the way you do.
However Iâm just responding to people quoting me.
I donât think any talents should ever be purely aesthetic though. That is something for glyphs, weapon effects, trinkets, cosmetic items etc.
I am not saying talents should be cosmetic.
Maybe stuff like âDark Rangerâ are more thematic and should be glyphs instead of talentsâŠ
Donât you?
All I heard from you is âX was problem in covenants, X isnât problem with Hero talentsâ. But you didnât address the issues I described that are problem with covenants and that are problem with hero talents.
I donât think your comparison is valid. Because the problems were completely different. Iâm sorry you still find that unclear at this point. I really canât make it any more plain.
Personally, i would love class order halls back
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Can you play Templar and not using wake of ashes? ( regardless if itâs op or not).
Then where is the freedom?
And if your answer is to choose Lightsmith then whatâs the difference between choosing kyrian over Necromancer?
Edit: if the raid build for prot pala doesnât involve eye of tyr because Iâd rather go another path⊠I am forced to choose it regardlessâŠ. Unless⊠I choose the ONLY other viable hero talent.
I admit, Iâm one of those that did that. My take on covenants is that in and of themselves they were a good idea, but in true Blizzard fashion poorly executed. Remember in tbe beginning when rhe best covenants for your class/spec changed on a weekly basis therefore negating all your progress??
As for hero talents, someone nailed it earlier in this thread by saying they are basically an extension of the existing talent trees
No they are an extension of ONE talent tree.
I think the part where hero talents tie in with a specific talent option in the class/spec trees may create some issues in the sense of less speccing choice, tier sets usually already can trigger such complaints.
Iâm curious how impactful the hero talents will be, and if impactful, how balanced the two choices per spec will be. I understand the OPâs complaint in that sense, it may cause a situation where people will feel forced to pick a hero spec to play âcorrectlyâ due to community perception. I donât think that is a farfetched notion, even if people are obviously free to just go with what they enjoy, and plenty make that work anyway.
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This is about that Asmongold video isnât it?
Oh yeah⊠btw⊠nobody seems to remember or mention: this is âsupposedlyâ an evergreen feature so 
this is going to stay forever.
Enjoy it 
It is no different to having to choose paths of a talent tree in the rest of the tree. You canât have every talent. Never have.
This is not comparable to Shadowlands where you could not freely swap, later they put in the band aid where you could swap but only by going ot Oribos which was clunky. However changing from one Hero Talents to the other is not gated by a two week swapping quest.
Wow has been claimed dead since announcement of BC, and at the end of every expansion, it is always being deemed dead with the next one.
9 times have people said that it would die in the next expansion, yet here we are still.
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Could you really swap after theyâve put the band aid? 
how many times you changed to Necromancer or Night Fae? How many times per week you swapped between Kyrian and Venthyr?
Yes, you could after 9.1.5. As much as you can pick Lighsmith now. But the main question is: should you?
They can call dark ranger talent tree âpoopandpeeâ for what that matters, people is going to choose the best simming one.
There is no class fantasy, itâs an illusion.
Now you can choose Templar 
nice⊠but you must play wake of ashes FOREVER (evergreen feature) even if they nerf it to the ground and not viable anymore.
As rogue you can play feint forever. Hope you talent it.
PI for priest, nice mandatory talent.
Where is the free choice Dragonflight is based on?
What Iâm complaining itâs not if I can swap or not, but the forcing to play what they want me to play. Regardless if I always play that talent.
More or less like this season tier set. Itâs so obnoxious and stupid I donât even care to track if my consecration is the big one or not. I donât like playing around something they force me to do.
Can I still tank? Yes. am I doing it right? I donât care, Iâm not going to stand with a big consa and not kiting the mobs.
Ye shadowlands was not bad tbh, i truly hope that they let u change hero talents freely and that there are no negatives are bound.