🦄 High Elves will be playable by the end of Midnight

[Amora-argent-dawn]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

Its just that, lets say we restore the dawnwell, even letting the Void Elves chip in to its balancing, why would the exile of either high elves or void elves remain after?

I’m trying to think of how they could remain seperate entities but with what we have so far I don’t know.

That’s kind of pointing to what was said earlier in this thread - how do you tell this story, with all it’s inclusive / melding factors without erasing / muddying the faction line somewhat?

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Amora-argent-dawn

That’s kind of pointing to what was said earlier in this thread - how do you tell this story, with all it’s inclusive / melding factors without erasing / muddying the faction line somewhat?

Yeah I don’t really see it (telling the story without chipping at the factions), the only way possible is if the high elves and void elves decline the offer but realistically why would they

[Amora-argent-dawn]

inb4 Erevien or Kaeros saying “Everything will revert to normal after it’s over!! ”

[Kaeros-dentarg]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

This is very much smelling like the idea is to absorb the high elves back into quel’thalas as they rejoin the kingdom to defend the sunwell.

I think this is probably what is happening. They are tying up loose ends with the Alliance High Elves, and there maybe a measure of irony that the moment they get dedicated story focus is their end as distinct group. Not happening in a vacuum either, the expectation is that Alliance High Elves will be an option in the upcoming Classic+, so definitively wrapping up their story and ending the possibility of them ever being a standalone allied race in retail makes them a more unique offering for THAT game.

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

Not sure what the purpose of the Dawnwell will be in the lore or how adding even more forces to its palette will make it more robust or prevent it from being targeted again.

My reading is that the Darkwell is a threat, and the Dawnwell isn’t about feeding the thalassians, it is about containing and modulating the void energies within. This is why there is talk of slowly depowering the well once it is stabilised, it is like decommissioning Chornobyl.

@Amora-argent-dawn

“Everything will revert to normal after it’s over!!

Which it will. Everyone has an interest in managing and containing the void energies contained withn the Dawnwell, but that’s as far as it seems to go. The Thalassians will have to figure out what to do without the Sunwell, but they seem in a less taxing position than they were the last time. The Silver Covenant is dissolved into the new Sunsilver Accord, which removes the last distinct Alliance High Elf organisation, and they go and live in Silvermoon. In fact that is probably the biggest change…

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

And in the end I don’t feel the Horde is done any service here. Because despite it being Silvermoon and Quel’Thalas the Blood Elves are pushed to the Margin and the Player’s basically treated by the plot as the lapdog to the Alliance characters and calming down unease surrounding Army of Light’s less than stellar actions.

I saw a suggestion somewhere that what is happening is the World Soul is influencing the factions through the radiant song to be co-operative. Unusually so in fact, explaining the weird behaviour of Danath and Eitrigg and others. And that when the worldsoul trilogy ends and Azeroth is free…pure speculation of course, but it does offer an out.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

Maybe but it would be a logical move if the plot centered around Alliance region. And frankly when something like that was proposed for the alliance side its fans just melted all the same. Didn’t you see the meltdown when the devs mistakenly said that 1/3rd of New Silvermoon would be available to all(and not the 2/3rd). When some suggested alliance players should pay less for the expansion?

And in the end I don’t feel the Horde is done any service here. Because despite it being Silvermoon and Quel’Thalas the Blood Elves are pushed to the Margin and the Player’s basically treated by the plot as the lapdog to the Alliance characters and calming down unease surrounding Army of Light’s less than stellar actions.

Maybe a logical move lore wise, but definitely not from a player friendly viewpoint. You cannot give one half of your playerbase this grand beautiful hub and the other half a few tents outside of that place. That’s insulting. It would be insulting if it was reversed too.
This is not about horde or alliance; it’s about giving all of your players a basic mechanical experience that’s somewhat equal.

It has always been the case that for an expansion we either got one shared hub or we got two seperate hubs for both factions. And those seperate hubs were always just about equal in scope.

As for the story being more alliance driven; yes, I’ve agreed with that numerous times already. I’d like two seperate campaigns again, like we often had in the past - leading to the same outcome, but with a slightly different journey.

[Amora-argent-dawn]

Tah.
You always manage to bring sensible and based takes to these threads.

Thank you.

[Kiryanor-grim-batol]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Maybe a logical move lore wise, but definitely not from a player friendly viewpoint. You cannot give one half of your playerbase this grand beautiful hub and the other half a few tents outside of that place. That’s insulting. It would be insulting if it was reversed too.
This is not about horde or alliance; it’s about giving all of your players a basic mechanical experience that’s somewhat equal.

And we’re not getting it ever since the team decided to write only a single storyline and questline. And as the result the experience for one side is lackluster. I did not feel like a champion and representative of the Horde in the last 2 expansions (did not touch SL leveling experience). I was following a unified front that somehow consists mainly of Alliance aligned heroes because Blizzard gave them monopoly on the cosmic forces. In entire expansion the Horde Characters are limited to a single questlines (Thrall pitching in for half of the Stormrook quest chain before leaving the stage for Wildhammers and Voss in a single small chain of quests before the final battle of the S1). You’d think goblin patch would be better but more than half the time it’s Renzik who pushes the plot forward while Gazlowe tries to quit it altogether. And of course K’aresh was absolutely horde free instead following temper tantrum called Alleria, her helpless mentor and Knaifu.

And now we’re bound for Silvermoon. Do we get to follow Lor’themar, Liadrin, Rommath or any Horde character that could hold ties to anything that’s happening? Of course not. We’re loyal Azeroth champion following the Alliance Heroes because only they matter. Might as well give myself a Blue Eyes and wear SC colors because that’s how it feels to play the game as a Horde right now.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

And we’re not getting it ever since the team decided to write only a single storyline and questline.

Yeah, and that’s unfortunate. I agree.

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

And as the result the experience for one side is lackluster.

I don’t agree with that because I like both factions.
It just happens that my main’s been alliance for the last several years, but I enjoy horde just as much; certainly when it comes to the races and such. So I don’t care who I’m doing quests for; it’s all fine (as long as it’s not a draenei ).

Now, I don’t deny that there’s people for whom it IS lackluster, but I would push back against the notion that that’s an experience ‘across the board for the whole Horde playerbase’.

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

And now we’re bound for Silvermoon. Do we get to follow Lor’themar, Liadrin, Rommath or any Horde character that could hold ties to anything that’s happening? Of course not. We’re loyal Azeroth champion following the Alliance Heroes because only they matter.

They’ve set storylines in motion and can’t just abandon them. Yeah that sucks if you really want some horde heroes in the spotlight.

I haven’t done the midnight storylines in the beta because I want to save that experience for myself for when it releases. So I can’t tell you how I feel about it yet. This rhetoric will no doubt continue once Midnight releases, so I’ll have more substantial opinions to share then.

[Kaeros-dentarg]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Yeah, and that’s unfortunate. I agree.

There is a lot of feedback on this right now. Blizzard however is locked into the world soul saga plotline, so there is likely to be no change on this during Midnight or the Last Titan.

I actually think that a combination of the continuing feedback and that the faction conflict is so rich a seam of storytelling means that it is inevitable relations will deteriorate again at some point. Not to the point where they are at all out war, that will never happen again as we can group together and guild together, but returning to the point where we are skirmishing with each other and trying to one up each other with neutral powers.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Kaeros-dentarg

There is a lot of feedback on this right now. Blizzard however is locked into the world soul saga plotline, so there is likely to be no change on this during Midnight or the Last Titan.

I agree.
Blizzard is too rigid of a bureaucratic machine to change that now.
Too many things are already locked in.

Hopefully we’ll see big changes in this regard after the saga’s third installment.
As you said: Not all out war, but some hostility again. Just to ‘set a mood’ for the stories to take place in.

I really do not want a 5th war expansion.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Maybe a logical move lore wise, but definitely not from a player friendly viewpoint. You cannot give one half of your playerbase this grand beautiful hub and the other half a few tents outside of that place. That’s insulting. It would be insulting if it was reversed too.

It depends right, I’d have been interested if it was stormwind they’d first revamp and offer 2/3rds up as neutral to see if everything would be the same just with colours reversed.

If it was the same, maybe in hindsight to what is coming now, but I would’ve been OK with not being given access to lets say Stormwind, Ironforge or the other places on my horde characters if they were first, knowing full well it would mean any other cities that are followed up with a revamp get that same respect.

It feels like new writers urinating (the other word isn’t allowed) the old away.

@Tah-earthen-ring

As for the story being more alliance driven; yes, I’ve agreed with that numerous times already. I’d like two seperate campaigns again, like we often had in the past - leading to the same outcome, but with a slightly different journey.

Hell, at this point I’d just take placeholder orc to give me the same exact same quest standing next to the alliance character

@Kiryanor-grim-batol

(did not touch SL leveling experience)

It felt very faction agnostic in the sense of the traditional 2, but it felt like they were trying to generate faction pride with the 4 covenants instead which is definately a decision of all time.

[Kaeros-dentarg]

@Tah-earthen-ring

I agree.
Blizzard is too rigid of a bureaucratic machine to change that now.
Too many things are already locked in.

Hopefully we’ll see big changes in this regard after the saga’s third installment.

I’m plugging the theory a friend of mine (who deserves the credit) came up with that the world soul is making the factions friendlier than they would have been and that once she is free and the song stops…

[Tah-earthen-ring]

Could be, yeah. I personally just figure: The world itself is in danger. Hell, the whole universe is at stake. That’s enough reason to get along.

If that problem is ‘solved’, people are more likely to fall back into their old ways.

However… With how stuff is being written now, I do have some doubts.
It could actually lead to a total merging of the factions and it just being this ‘aesthetic thing’ in the future.

I’d personally love to play a horde human.

We’ll see.

[Kaeros-dentarg]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Could be, yeah. I personally just figure: The world itself is in danger. Hell, the whole universe is at stake. That’s enough reason to get along.

If that problem is ‘solved’, people are more likely to fall back into their old ways.

However… With how stuff is being written now, I do have some doubts.
It could actually lead to a total merging of the factions and it just being this ‘aesthetic thing’ in the future.

I’d personally love to play a horde human.

We’ll see.

I have to think that is unlikely. They have the most iconic faction rivalry in video gaming besides the GDI and the Brotherhood of Nod and it would be a brave storyteller who decided to jettison that.

They have tried moving away from it in recent years, and it clearly isn’t working because it doesn’t ring true and goes against one of the pillars of the game.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

There is a chance that this end to exile is just something that removes the faction barrier between Thalassian elves and not the rest, which is easy for high elves since they’re not a standalone race But then there’s the question ok but what about void elves who are still faction separated.

It is very hard to justify either exile of void elves and high elves staying in place, regardless of how these groups will decide to more forward in the aftermath

[Irisi-silvermoon]

@Tah-earthen-ring

We got stupid ugly spacegoats instead.

@Tah-earthen-ring

I’ve made my feelings about the draenei perfectly clear on these forums for years.

@Tah-earthen-ring

And it’s a fanatical, deranged opinion.

Why Draenei of all the races?! Haven’t they suffered enough already?! Seriously, even with underdeveloped lore (thousands of years without anything more significant than “they were just fleeing the Legion”) they’re one of the most (if not the most) interesting and unique races in the Alliance

[Kaeros-dentarg]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

There is a chance that this end to exile is just something that removes the faction barrier between Thalassian elves and not the rest, which is easy for high elves since they’re not a standalone race But then there’s the question ok but what about void elves who are still faction separated.

It is very hard to justify either exile of void elves and high elves staying in place, regardless of how these groups will decide to more forward in the aftermath

Thalassian Elves being allowed to come home under the circumstances makes sense, but only because they are thalassian elves. But in reality this is likely a narrative way of dealing with the High Elves once and for all.

A good question regarding the Void Elves, they aren’t joining the Silversun Accord and are a strong part of the Alliance. Perhaps Windrunner Village will do for them?

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Irisi-silvermoon

Why Draenei of all the races?!

Because I seriously dislike everything about them.

@Irisi-silvermoon

Haven’t they suffered enough already?!

They’re a made up race. No one has suffered.

@Irisi-silvermoon

Seriously, even with underdeveloped lore (thousands of years without anything more significant than “they were just fleeing the Legion”) they’re one of the most (if not the most) interesting and unique races in the Alliance

I just don’t agree with that. I hate them. I’ve always hated them since the retcon back in TBC.
They’re fake. They’re not real Warcraft to me.

Then there’s the thing I hate most of all: Disgusting tendrils (and tails). I seriously hate the look of those things; And it’s not Chapodiphobia because tentacles with suckers on them and such are fine. It’s sleek, smooth tentacles and tendrils that truly physically disgust me.

Then there’s their stupid accent. It sounds ridiculous and I can’t take anything about them seriously.

Then there’s their technology. I hate the look of all of it. Stupid crystal nonsense. It’s ugly, it’s stupid.

I wish they didn’t exist. I would rather have playable broken ones than what we got.
Sorry. It’s how I feel.

If I had been in Sylvanas’ shoes, I would have torched the Exodar.

[Amora-argent-dawn]

@Tah-earthen-ring

I’ve made my feelings about the draenei perfectly clear on these forums for years.

@Irisi-silvermoon

they’re one of the most (if not the most) interesting and unique races in the Alliance

My unsolicited opinion is that the playable draenei should’ve remained as broken with the same backstory as they got now (in the same spirit as WC3) and joined the Horde (Thrall’s Horde took pity on them and wanted to make amends and lets be real their aesthetic would’ve fit Horde more than Alliance back then)

Instead of the current draenei surviving and fleeing and later joining the Alliance, those unchanged draenei were mostly killed off, and any survivors would’ve become an allied race at a later point in the expansions as we went to combat the Legion, essentially taking the Lightforged spot.

[Kiryanor-grim-batol]

@Tah-earthen-ring

They’ve set storylines in motion and can’t just abandon them. Yeah that sucks if you really want some horde heroes in the spotlight.

I was unlucky to see the spoilers. Apparently Liadrin follows us during Amani Zone but… Oh god her lines and writing are terrible as she shows zero knowledge about Trolls. Ignore the fact she spent hundreds of years fighting Amani. Her race for 20 years was allied with and fought alongside Jungle trolls of Darkspear Tribe. You’d have to learn something. It’s the same level of DF’s "Alexsztraza (once enslaved and forced to breed for Dragonmaw) can’t comprehend that Slavery is bad
" Writing.