As a player who run some m+ content only, and today i can get minor upgrades from +15 keys only except for weekly rng vault. It’s depressing that every wednesday there’s a chance for an upgrade.
They shouldn’t have nerfed m+ ilvl to below heroic raid.
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If m+ dropped same ilevel as heroic then you may as well just delete the raid.
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They should increase the raid loot, go back with how M+ loot was that you get more items (think ilvl for the difficulty is fine) and I think more people will be happier this way. This is not about gearhoring but rather letting casual players catch up much easier and make those that go hardcore have fun on alts.
7 Likes
Oh noes mah loot!
No offence but people have been pampered for too long in regards of loot. You’re not suppose to be decked out in epics that fell on you, it should be a grind.
Yes it’s annoying to not get upgrades bit that’s the name of the game. Deal with it.
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Do you need better loot if you only m+?
Edit: im asking if he pushed keys or stops at 15
They have to otherwise raiding will instantly die.
Technically m+ difficulty scales infinitely so technically yes
I’m mostly against it being capped, going for higher then 15 should give better stuff
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Only if you do the scaling content. Many stop at 15
Actualy m+ and pvp are the contents where u need the gear most to push as high as possible( in m+ more than in pvp i would say but still) , where raid is simply balanced around X ilvl, and higher gear will just make it die quickly.
Where in m+ u cant push to X lvl without gear, which is ironic…
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No point to raid anyways unless it’s mythic and than the value diminish for 90% of guilds cause they can’t distribute loot to progress the raid and satisfy their players.
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It’s 100% about “lootwhoring”.
Your only purpose with this post is to make gear progression take a lot less time, i.e. you want more rewards for less effort, regardless of what that means for the overall feel of gear progression over the course of the entire season.
Technically raids are easier than M+ so I guess they could be a gearing progress for M+ 
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In BfA it overgeared people for heroic raids… so those people tried to pug mythic raids and got their asses handed to them.
Because mythic raids have mechanics you can’t ignore and probably needed to practise at lower levels.
Personally I’m glad that M+ drops you out with an ilvl appropriate to go to heroic raids; I think it gives people a reason to bother, and it makes heroic an actual progression rather than a roflstomp.
Be nice if loot dropped there, but I guess small indie dev things.
Wouldn’t that mean that you would be okay with less items from M+ then? Because according to that statement you think that asking for a change that may in any way indicate “less effort” means it counts as “lootwhoring” which is very bad mindset of yours.
I’ve raided in classic and I know how it is being rewarded nothing and yet I liked it. Why? Because there was a sense of community but even now that I found myself a wonderful guild that is semi hardcore, it feels like there’s not the same level of community.
So instead of making retail like classic in terms of loot, why not making it more like classic in other aspects.
The current loot system is quite offputting to many players who don’t spend all week playing and may only run a couple dungeons a week.
Chances of getting a drop from their lowish level M+ key that they can use is now pretty low, and then it’s the mercy of the one choice RNG Vault as they don’t have time to raid and don’t or can’t get into rated pvp as there is no solo queue for it.
Progression for them now feels non-existent and gearing up an alt is much, much harder than it was, so they feel pigeon holed.
The low drop rate feeds through to more toxic groups (must finish faster, etc) and less groups as more people don’t bother and makes it even less likely that lower ilvl players will get into even low M+ groups and so the spiral goes.
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Sm1 do M+? 
Then let it die. If this or some other content becomes meaningless, or unfun, or whatever, let it die. Do not nerf the rest of the game just to coerce players to play your unfun/boring/painful content.
I don’t care. That system is broken top-to-bottom either way.
Here’s what I think about loot in general:
I’m not gonna ask you to read through all that, but if you don’t care about the reasoning and just want the TL;DR: I like vanilla loot better - and let’s talk about how we can apply it to the modern game. Blizzard have done an okay job here, but they could do much better.
The reason I’m talking about the number of items is that WoW should always be able to offer you upgrades - or at least close to always. If you just buff droprates a ton, and not much else, then everyone ends up wearing their BiS list very fast, and that wasn’t even considered.
That’s a good question, but also a little besides the point of this thread.
But it’s definitely something that I’ve tried to talk about. I always look at:
- world/story
- community/idetity
- combat/power progression
And the more of these boxes I can tick off the better, and if we really wanna have fun we can tick off intersections between them as well.
And I have that list from the vanilla devs by the way.
Go… gearing everybody up super fast. Great for the first few weeks, but then: Everybody’s wearing the same, there’s nowhere to go to collect more gear, thus no reason to engage in combat to improve your character. Since everybody’s wearing the same, there’s no feeling of distinction between people when looking at them or fighting them.
Giving people gear too fast is just plain bad. Giving them gear too slowly risks causing frustrationg in the combat department and risks a lacking sense of personal identity and growth, which can lead to a stagnant community where people don’t move anywhere, which then leads to an inability to ever see more of the world.
Neither extreme is good.
The first Shadowlands interview there was with the release of Alpha had Ion be asked about what kind of questions he was hoping people would ask more of, and he said he was hoping for more questions about the community aspects and world design and those sorts of feedback loops. He never got it.
Join with me - be the change he and we want to see, and let’s talk about it. Just not in this thread
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My thought on this topic.
Mythic level 15 should be buffed to 216 ilvl , that way last two bosses from heroic raid still remain relevant while those higher keys that let’s face it , they are harder than heroic raid also feel rewarding.
Second option is to not buff the mythic 15 loot and instead going back to raid giving more loot.
Blizzard keep’s saying that raid should give better loot because it requires more coordination . So if that is the case , make it feel more rewarding again.
BFA was giving more loot from raids , so with their logic no one would be running heroic ny’alotha after they got their gear , but as far as I can remember people kept running it , either for fun or for alts.
In conclusion , more loot does not mean players will stop playing the game faster , let them have some fun 
havent gotten a single upgrade from anything on m+ above a +3. I have exactly 2 items equipped on my main from m+, everything else is from the Vault and guaranteed.
Not. a. single. frickin. usefull. drop. from. m+10.
Thats a joke. I’m literally in the top 10 rio score on my server for the specc I play and dont get loot at all, it’s a total joke
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