How is it that DpS that barley even know how their own Classes Work trying to argue that other Role are broken ?
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It’s connected though.
Tanks are completely busted, as Ishayo has correctly said. It’s not just this season, it has been going on for the entirety of the expansion. Now, if tanks are self sufficient to a point where they do no longer need a healer, someone has to need a healer or you can just remove the role from the game.
To compensate, Blizzard has increased all incoming damage on the group. However, it seems that Blizzard does balancing around what is feasible at the top end, not how most people in a PUG would play. This has resulted in the infamous “healer stress syndrome” of S1 and S2 for people playing in PUGs, while players at the absolute pinnacle had been able to completely go without a healer and instead rely on well coordinated CC and certain specs’ mitigation and recovery abilities like Vampiric Embrace or Ancestral Guidance.
Now, the big issue with increasing mob damage per key level is that at a certain point some classes will not be taken along due to their lack of survivability. Hunters have famously been neglected in favour of classes with better survivability.
The only way to course correct is to make tanks need external healing again. As long as tanks are self sufficient enough to basically solo M+ content, there will be a need of “survivability escalation” for other roles to compensate for the required increase in group damage.
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Way to go Blizzard. They just screwed part of my gameplay with:
- Consecrated Blade is no longer a talent and now learned at level 11.
I used consecrated ground to not only damage, but to throw out some healing for anyone standing in it. It was a useful tool to add some healing when not in combat or drop some healing on some NPCs in the Farodar and Fyrakk fights. Drop consecration, everyone gets a nice little additional heal. Now that part of my gameplay is gone.
It now only drops during combat and under my target. A definite step backwards in ret adaptability.
This is one of the ways it can be solved. I am more in favor of the other way, which I think players would hate more: Increase unavoidable damage and decrease avoidable damage. I’ll provide some numbers pulled out of my behind to explain the reasoning:
HPS from spamming mana-neutral spells from a healer (ie. their cost is low enough to be overcome by passive mana regen): 30k hps
Current unavoidable damage requirement: 10k hps
Therefore even just spamming neutral-mana spells is mostly wasted as overheal and therefore the healer is forced to dps.
Total HPS required to overcome all avoidable damage if nothing is evaded: 300k hps.
So healers, in the case where the group takes a lot of damage due to circumstances, must absolutely use cooldown to prevent deaths, and in cases it’s not even preventable.
Instead I’d change unavoidable damage to be above the mana-neutral hps of healers (so in the above example at 40k-50k per sec), and reduce unavoidable damage down to 100k so that there is time to react and avoid the yo-yoing of hp bars.
starting to think tanks might gotten a slight main character syndrom over the last expansion.
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You are right, I hate this 
My reasoning:
For one, we already have encounters/trash that take massive chunks of unavoidable damage out of the party. Increasing unavoidable damage would greatly increase the skill floor for lower keys, as now DPS players would need to recognise and memorise damage patterns for trash and bosses and plan their defensives accordingly. While this is something good players already do, you will inevitably require this amount of thinking even from your average monkey. And as someone who has one through the responsibility shift from healer to DPS in Cata… this will destroy PUGging.
This, in turn, will lead to an exacerbation of the “incoming damage increase → survivability creep” spiral that DF has started, while not dismantling the current “God Role” of tanks. The best way to bring balance is to shift more responsibility over a tank’s suvival to the healer role, and decrease healing needed on the group altogether. That way, mitigation cooldowns can be assessed and balanced on a much more even ground. Currently, certain classes are seen as “not viable” due to their lack of personal CDs. By reducing group damage - avoidable and unavoidable - this entry barrier to higher content would at least be limited to a great extent. If a DPS player no longer has to fear an instagib ability from trash or bosses every 30s, then they do not need a battery of defensive cooldowns to counter those.
On the other hand, tanks would lose the ability to hard carry dungeons, but on the other hand fit into the “Trinity” design again instead of sticking out.
What was the point of the beta?
Same as every other beta. To create marketing hype.
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in beta i couldnt rly accept any quests to go to the new zones, it was actually broken for me the questgivers just didnt have any quests, maybe i didnt buy enough shop mounts in 2024 
You got me there. I have no argument.
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The people complaining about current endgame balance DO realize that 70 is the new 60, and that everything they do right now, as well as current DpS logs and lists from live, is completely irrelevant in teh grand scheme of things, right?
Because all of these tuning changes are balanced around 80s with hero talents. If you want to see how theye actually going play out in practice and not just in your mind, then you need to get on the beta.
And this is also exactly why the season ended the day prepatch was released, because it´s obvious to anyone with even 2cm of foresight that things are going to be all over the place @L70 as a direct result. 
But I thought the player base hated borrowed power now they embracing it again lol confused 
Then they should make the changes when the game launches? my BM is doing way less than my Fury warrior and Paladin lol…
Who ever said anything about hero talents being borrowed power?
We have no idea what will happen to them in 1,5 years…maybe they´ll be replaced, maybe just reworked /tuned, we can only speculate wildly with zero evidence one way or another.
Preemptive complaining about pure theoreticals will always be fail IMO… might as well be flaming all humans collectively for not being able to win a war against an invading alien race that we don´t even have evidence for the existence of, but in pure theory absolutely MUST exist somewhere in the 13 billion light year radius sphere of he universe that we can see.
Please note, you take it to the extreme. Notice the numbers I have used to illustrate my suggestion: The unavoidable damage would be slightly above the mana-neutral spam of heals from the healer. So the damage would not be unhealable, nor would it make the use of defensive abilities from damage dealers mandatory for the lower keys or for M0.
At the same time, since avoidable damage would become less punishing, it would actually make pugging easier, since there would be less oneshots and wipes due to an inexperienced player just standing still and hitting the boss.
I do understand that this would negatively affect the higher-level keys. But players would still shine with their skill even if it means that the top timed keys would be 3-4 levels below the current maximum.
The most likely thing is to make them part of the baseline trees.
You think they will stick around?.. New expac and all of a sudden new powers no choice just powers… so yeah they are borrowed
Based on past experiences, yes, this is not unreasonable. But it is still speculation
I think, as previously stated in plain english, that we do not know or have proof one way or the other and can therefore only speculate.
Your headcanon is your headcanon, and mine is mine. Nobody else is obligated to participate in either, least of all the development team
Blizzard stated they hated passive and want meaningful choice of talents… What does that do with these new skills of mostly passives…
I don´t work for Blizzard, ask them, not me. I will however point out that each spec has 2 hero trees to CHOOSE from, both offering different playstyles, and each of which having at least 2 choice nodes that significantly alter how exactly a skill works.
But that is not the discussion we were having, which was whether or not it is or is not borrowed power. And I have yet to see a single bit of hard confirmation that they are going away in 1,5 years from any even remotely reputable source, much less an actual bluepost to that effect.
Hunter shares trees between specs… so not every spec gets to choose 2 trees 