So what you seem to be claiming is that WoW was a game made to cater exclusively for around 5% of it’s player base and the remaining 95% who the game did not cater for were an anomaly.
I’m not “claiming” it, it IS this way. You’re welcome to read on who went on to design raids etc - the everquest crew (some of them gone in the aftermath of recent scandals).
People flocked to it because warcraft was a popular IP (warcraft 2, warcraft 3) and almost nobody knew what sort of sweatlord game it was going to be at max level. There was no wowhead, thottbot/allakhazam were barely known (and almost unusable) and NOBODY could predict at that point what AQ and Naxx would look like.
NOBODY managed to killed the first incarnation of C’thun and there have been plenty of bosses that were mathematically proven to be impossible, forcing “blizzard” to nerf them here and there.
There wasn’t anything for non-sweatlords in the game, but due to the lack of knowledge/resources, they didn’t know that. Ignorance is bliss.
You started the game and reached level 10 in 2004-2005, could you possibly have known that you’re not going to step inside the final raid without full world buffs (which you didn’t even know about) and thousands of gold for consumables? (which you also didn’t know about).
The 95% you’re referring to didn’t understand what their position was and what their role was (to supply the AH with things for the sweatlords). Once they understood that, they started complaining about it and the money people stepped in to fix it.
If you really played in 2005, you’d know that you couldn’t initially see another player’s talent build. It was designed that way on purpose.
Once they decided they wanted money (more subscribers that would stay), they forced people to have transparent talent choices and even gear (remember Armory?).
Yeah, vanilla and part of BC were designed by sweatlords, for sweatlords and I for one am thankful that the power to decide upon certain aspects has been taken away from them. Nobody’s going to miss their stupid slow leveling and attunements and 30 stacked consumables and debuff limits etc.
It’s a shame that the powers that be aren’t willing to just delete that “legacy” and they’re just settling for tiny steps, afraid to alienate nobodies.
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she is right.
were still playing super mario kart and other chips byside, sweatlord that been 24/24 7/7 on WoW were a minority
you had to be a sweatlord to complete all the raids, but not to travel into Azeroth (what 95% did)
it’s an adventure game at first
You’re talking about my wow-friends, I think I know their situation better than you do.
Like two of us were raiding and other 20 telling us they can’t figure out how we can afford enchants or how we make gold etc.
“you’re a priest with engineering, how do you farm herbs for potions?”
“I use a rogue alt with herbalism”
“but how do you get him to 60 too, I’m still struggling to get there on my first char”
…yeah, because leveling was crap and the slow speed is pointless NOW. There were reasons for it back then, but those reasons are no longer valid.
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Interesting perspective
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Look, let me…try to explain this two examples.
There were reasons for attunements back in vanilla and even in BC (talking about the originals).
Those reasons were to make sure that a player would learn to play with others and understand his class role/abilities (as you had to run dungeons), to learn to be socially acceptable (online; as to avoid getting kicked from a group), to understand rng, loot (distribution), how not everything was for you, how being too greedy resulted in a kick etc.
Are those reasons still valid today? In my opinion…no. I don’t have numbers regarding new players, but I’m guessing over 90% of people already know all there is to know about grouping, rng, loot etc. So why are those attunements still required? (for onyxia, for example). To…what? To have 30 people still asking if anyone wants to do Jailbreak (alliance) or if anyone has seen Rexxar (horde)?
On to leveling
There were good reasons for how slow it was. You’d get to know the lore, perhaps even feel involved in uncovering “Katrina Prestor”'s motives, blackrock orcs, dark iron dwarves etc. Perhaps you’d enjoy figuring out the story, who was good, who was bad and the why (Pamela’s questline in EPL hit hard the first time, as did Fordring’s son)
BUT IT’S BEEN 20 YEARS.
WE’VE DONE IT 20 TIMES ON 20 CHARS.
WE KNOOOOOOW.
THERE’S NOTHING NEWWWWWWWW TO THIS, WE’RE PLAYING WITH QUESTIE SET TO INSTANT TEXT, AUTO-ACCEPT, AUTO-DELIVER QUESTS, WE’RE NOT EVEN READING THE STUPID TEXT, WE NO LONGER CARE, WE’VE SEEN IT 20 TIMES. YOU KNOW THIS, “BLIZZARD” KNOW THIS, THIS IS WHY THEY’VE INTRODUCED QUESTIE-LIKE BEHAVIOUR IN LATER XPACKS. We want the rep, we want the item, we want the xp, we simply don’t care about the story anymore, we’ve heard it 20 times. They know this. This is why heirlooms were introduced. This is why xp required to level was cut multiple times. Because they know it’s just stupid and most people no longer find it acceptable to spend one month to level up when leveling up no longer holds any sort of …mystery, when there’s no unknown, just a dreadful long-winded waste of time.
GIVE US A BREAAAKKKKK, WE JUST WANT TO HIT LEVEL 60 FOR RAIDING OR PVP.
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as the goal is TBC, maybe they give us the reduced XP required per lvl from TBC directly
it’s a TBC mega-prepatch, not a race to 60
They won’t and I’m not advocating for that anyway.
All I was saying was that Pinkiewinky had a very valid point with this topic and if I believed I could change that, I’d advocate for 5x - easily. Even that would be SLOW.
I played it at 7x and progression felt natural - when you left westfall, you were ready for duskwood, for example…and when you started duskwood, you’d finish all the quests there, no problem, without having to constantly go back and forth, to go elsewhere, to come back later etc. You finished duskwood, you were ready to enter STV (and actually complete it without having to go elsewhere).
This is something they acknowledged and fixed from WOTLK onwards - natural progression. You left Borean Tundra, for example, you were ready for Dragonblight. You were done with Dragonblight, you could go to Grizzy Hills etc. The entire back and forth from vanilla holds no charm and is of no use to anyone. Still having stupid @*!% like “the tower of althalaxx” in that game is a joke. Go (on foot) to ashenvale from the end of darkshore - but to the flight point! - go back again - go back AGAIN - then go back AGAIN - then do that 3 more times, then you’ve got a level 27 quest and you’re level 20 with no chance of completing it. “Useless” would be a compliment.
2x really is extremely modest and it wouldn’t even change anything. It would still be incredibly slow for most classes.
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i understand your will but…
people don’t even use questie anymore… they simply get boosted xD
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Not on fresh servers, not the first time around. They can’t even buy gold to pay for boosts, because nobody has gold, initially.
Yeah, 3 months from now, they’ll get boosted.
But at the start, who’s gonna boost you? Even the Iranian boost overlords are still level 10 or something - and I don’t know, they might have “fixed” mage instance aoe. It will be a while until the skullflame paladins show up in Stockade.
Even bot owners have to level their future bots first.
Much more … and much less. The huge number of servers made for differences in raiding culture.
… I never did any of this. Our rules were: Be at the entrance in time, dang you! Bring food - also for your pet! and ofc a fair amount of Potions. I think I got the first WB long time after doing AQ40. Getting the right gear, protection against fire/frost and ditto damage, were much more of a “job” - but we collaborated to do this.
The RAIDS were designed for sweatlords, not the game as such, but this did not prevent more laid back guilds from progressing slowly., chatting, wiping and having fun all the while.
yep, that’s all people asked for a FRESH
- no boosting
- no gold inflation
- no ganking by lvl 60
so if it goes faster, it’s gonna be just a new Era server
what should be faster is the 60% Flying mount → it should go to 100-150%
i made a topic on it →
Make Flying mount 150%speed [TBC]
Vote for me
I need you, you and you
Yes, on one hand you are right. But then you can also notice that some change proposals (like recent dual-spec addition and de/buff limit removal) have overwhelming player support while others, like this one, are overwhelmingly dismissed as you can see in this thread. I for one am happy that Blizzard seems to be going the OSRS route of actually heeding the player feedback.
Vanilla is all about the journey and the levelling speed should stay as it is. But when TBC approaches, I wouldn’t say no to a Joyous Journeys buff from Classic.
Yes, it did, because after 2-3 resets in Naxx, they disbanded.
It went like this.
First reset: everyone goes in, somewhat enthusiastic, full of hope. Kill 1-2 bosses - the easy ones - then fail on literally every other boss.
Second reset: a few people are inexplicably not signing up and aren’t reachable.
Third reset: discussions about potentially merging with another guild; failure to achieve that; guild disband.
Yeah, what you described worked up to (including) AQ40, which requires no world buffs and no consumables at all. After that, it doesn’t work anymore, people get tired of failing (quite fast, too) and leave and it’s “good bye, laid back guild”.
WAS.
It WAS about the journey. When the journey was new, mysterious, interesting, when you couldn’t wait to see “what happens next”.
It ISN’T about that anymore and it hasn’t been about that in ages, so let’s stop pretending like we take the time to read the quest text, to figure out where we have to go, to look for the entrance etc. We know the quest, we know where to go and what to do and we (like to think that we) know the fastest route to 60.
Questie on, auto-accept/auto-turn-in, rock’n’roll, “ain’t nobody got time for that”.
As I said: Different servers, differnt cultures. Yes we wiped, yes, some left, but we soldiered on, and we had fun.
Our guild crumbled in mid-Cata, from other reasons than wipes.
Well that’s how some play. I still do not use Quest helpers, still bungle around, still have fun - only difference from Vanilla is tahti I do not do Dungeons or Raids any more. ANd this is a very good reason to play on the HC servers, where the journey still counts, and actually is new and exciting still.
PS: as one of the OG Hardcoreplayers - Sonetimes known as IronMan Challengers (2012-present) - I have levelled in excess of 100 characters through the starting zones, and I still discover new details.
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No.
Just to be clear on this, NO. No way, not a chance.
Normal XP rates please, no need to rush or hurry.
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Not only will I read the quest text because it’s been 5 years since I last did it, I have in fact already downloaded an AI voiceover mod that will read all the quests out for me for maximum immersion.
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Well I prefer reading, but I know some like listening. Cheers, and have fun!
Yeah, as a moderately dyslexic person with strong auditory memory skew, it is literally a Godsend. Audiobooks too. By Elune, if those were around when I was in elementary school… alas, such is life.
Cheers!
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