I think it’s you who needs to worry about addiction if you actually force yourself to do things that you don’t enjoy in video games, just to receive imaginary rewards.
Who said I am “forcing” anything. Recognizing that the rewards won’t be instant but will require some time to archive is simple rational thinking. If I see that I can’t make a “3rd m+ character” because I wont have the time to build it up and play at the m+ level I want to play due to real life work schedule has nothing to with “force”.
Imagine that, you have to do something to get something in a video game. That has been like the staple of video gaming since…I don’t know when video games where invented? Not talking about specific exceptions regarding God-mode sandbox games where everything is available and given the moment you start the game.
Why? Why can’t I save them up? Why can’t I blast through 16 Delves and get 2 items and 6 options? Why can’t I skip a week and get a catch-up for the next week? Why does it have to be 8 Delves and not 6?
I would very much say it is Blizzard’s problem. The amount of time and effort you put into the game seems completely disproportional to the reward you extract from it. That applies to Delves as much as it applies to M+ and raiding.
I get why Blizzard has a motivation to slow progression down to a crawl. But I fail to see the player motivation for it.
And this is how we eventually reach “why I just get 639 mailed to me pronto”. Step by step, the snowball becomes an avalanche.
Eventually somebody has to pull the handbrake before we reach the avalanche phase…
Because people know or should what WoW is? I dont remember a single expansion…all ranging back to vanilla WoW where you could get BiS geared within one week.
Heck gear acquisition back then was even slower what we have now when you got a guaranteed 1 item per week unless you could get a guild to pretty much funnel every piece to you and even then it was down to RNG of actually dropping what you need from every boss.
Still asking for more then like I mentioned before, we will reach the point where we will be debating on “perhaps lets drop all the fuss and pleasantries and just mail the gear pronto and be done with it?”.
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The player has no choice. It’s not like we’re refusing loot. I’m not seeing 3 slots in Vault and saying “Nah Blizzard, you keep these 2 pieces.”
Eh.
I cap the vault just from normal play. I don’t have to put any effort into it, it’s just capped by the things I like to do.
What handbreak?! We’re practically standing still as it is.
I mean, consider the WoW experience as the journey it is.
You start at level 1.
It goes damn fast!
New levels! New spells! New talents! Pick a specialization! Better gear! Rare items! Epic items! Hero talents! Maximum level! Grats!! Explorer gear! Adventurer gear! Veteran gear! Champion gear!
HANDBREAK NOW! NOW! NOW DAMMIT NOW!!
Then you have to sit there and grind God knows how many M+ or raids or Delves to get a tiny +3 item level upgrade.
It is an absolutely ridiculous journey that really saves the worst for last.
It is a completely unrewarding endgame relative to everything that came before it.
There is no reason what so ever for imposing on the player to ration their gear upgrades in such small portions over such a long period of time by requiring such insane time commitments in the hamster wheel and sheer luck of the dice.
It is terrible game design.
God forbid Blizzard took a critical look at their own game design and considered whether the time and effort players put into the game corresponded to a satisfying amount of rewards extracted from the game, or whether players were perhaps feeling a bit underserved by being imposed harsh gameplay requirements and arbitrary time-gating.
So what is WoW then today? A glorified hamster wheel that you run ad nauseum to collect a few extra item levels in the form of passive stats, and then proceed to do so every week for six months straight because Blizzard wants you to stay subscribed, because God forbid you gear up too fast!
Is that what WoW is?
You told me in a previous discussion that you play for so many hours per day that it’s practically a secondary job to you. So of course you cap the vault easily. Good for you. (no offense intended)
But I’m not sure there’s a glorious future for the game if it balances its reward scheme around such a hardcore commitment to it.
At least if the scope and breath of the game was greater, then maybe there would be some sense to it. But when Blizzard basically just tells the player to get on the hamster wheel and grind M+ and Delves and Raids until your eyes bleed if you want those tiny gear upgrades, then it gets ridiculous.
I mean…
I don’t feel like it’s a grind. I play what I like to play. I don’t care particularly much if it’s a deplete or if we time it, I had fun if people aren’t being flamey or throwing or such things. Most runs are fun. I can have fun even in keys that don’t lead to it getting completed and I get nothing from it. I wouldn’t play m+ if I felt like it’s a grind.
Uhm, yeah, of course, but everything you do should be fun and beneficial to you. It should not cost you anything to require gear. It should be true enjoyment all the way. As soon as it feels like it’s costing you anything, you are not enjoying the game, but instead forcing yourself to play it for rewards. You turned your video game free time into work.
Feelings aside, it is.
Unlike the leveling experience – which presents you with new places and new foes all the time – then the endgame presents you with a fixed portion of content that’s broken into segments.
And you can then do these segments over and over again.
That’s a grind. You’re repeating the same thing over and over again.
And nothing wrong with that. That’s the game.
But it’s just become too unrewarding.
You have to repeat the gameplay too many times to get a satisfying reward out of it now.
And that’s because on one hand the gear progression is too limited, so Blizzard rations it out with all kinds of time-gates and limits and luck. Time-gate on Vault, cap on crests, low drop rate on maps, and so on.
And on the other hand it’s because the content progression is too limited, so it way too quickly devolves into a repetitive boring grind. This topic is about Delves, so mindlessly chopping through a +8 followed by another +8 followed by another is very much a boring grind.
That’s contrary to a game like Diablo IV which is also a game where you grind the same thing over and over and over again. And for all its faults, it at least has a gear progression that corresponds to the content progression, so for however long you keep grinding that same content, the game will keep spitting a corresponding amount of satisfying rewards out.
That’s not the case in WoW. It comes to a crawl way too quickly.
That doesn’t work.
Either the reward acquisition needs to be increased, or the grind needs to be decreased. They’re not in harmony right now.
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Gearing in this game is literally the most ridiculously easy it has ever been. You can get hero gear from the most brain dead content like time walking raid or delves vault/map. And you’re complaining it’s too much of a grind? What do you want, log in and get a little captcha to prove you’re not an AI and proceed to unlock all vault slots? Why do you need loot if you don’t want to play the game? What’s the point?
It’s very simple. I want the Great Vault filling activities to be fun. Delves are not fun. They need to be improved. Until they are improved, nobody should have to do so many of them to fill the Great Vault. It’s actually so easy to understand that I can’t fathom how this bears explanation.
Maybe not do delves on all your alts because it will absolutely burn you out, especially if you want max it out.
Well, if you do 40 delves on 5 characters, of course it’s not fun. Blizzard could create the most fun, and best endgame activity, but after 40 times you’re gonna wanna puke
Unironically, leveling is my favourite part of the game right now. Leveling, BGs, and Raids. I think Blizzard seems very lost with what they wanna do with Dungeon endgame
character and power progression is the fun of the game for a large amount of players. blizzard has to find a better balance for these systems to achieve that.
people want to have fun working towards AND reaping the benefits. its detrimental to the health of the game when its just one or the other. its completely understandable that if the payoff is bad, it drains a certain amount of enjoyment out of the experience of the game. for some it loses more than for others, and right now a big portion of the player base is unhappy with the state of this.
They seem very lost with the whole game. You can count the games that have such vocal playerbase on your fingers. Yes, some is trolling/not helpful, etc, even misleading, but all other games don’t even have that. Their forums are dead.
So they know what the playerbase wants but do the exact opposite. They’ve always have a strange fixation with nerfing fun, but what started out as a joke years ago seems to be a full blown episode now. Fixing things when people unsub should be seen as a failure and people should bear consequences for that. That means you’ve failed to retain them. It is not a tool to measure when something is wrong with the game. That means you don’t playe your own game - because if you did, you’d see the issues very easily, they are glaring at you, daily.
What does that tell you ? This is from yesterday. It took them a week to figure out they’ve made Zekvir absolutely irrelevant and that there was no reason whatsoever for anyone to do him anymore (epic failure of a nerf) so they came up with this. What does this solve ?
Yes you can now get crests (the epic ammount of TWO per run) and valorstones once a week. But why would you do that, taking the time to travel to his lair when you can only do this once per week ? Why not stay where you are and do the same delve again if you need crests ? Or the nearest one, because Zekvir’s lair is at the very end of the world, out of everything else.
They are afraid that you could farm him 30 times a week to get 60 crests to upgrade one piece of gear. Instead of the way they want you to do it - farm x4 delves daily, without keys, just for 2 Runed crests. Either option is absolutely insane and nobody that values their time would do it, but here we have a solution that solves nothing. Because of fear of gearing up too quickly.
Because they fear once you are done gearing, you’ll unsub. Except delves are not for the ones that do that. Casual players play for fun. Yes gear is part of that but not all. They play because they find a thing in WoW to do that seems like fun and do it. Daily. Or semi-daily. I used to spam heroics because it is fun for me, the gear is worthless. Or sometimes I feel like PvP so I do that. Shoving people in what you think they should be doing is never gonna end well. This whole fun nerfing should stop and people should be let to do whatever they want to do in the game.
Doing 28 delves per week on a character to get 56 runed crests to upgrade 1 piece of gear 3 times is not it fam. And we are valorcapped, have a million crystals and other currencies that do nothing anymore but starved of the one thing we need because retention.
Putting shackles (because that is what they are) on players will not get them to stay in your game, letting them free will.
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Your reasoning is backwards buddy. Contrary to popular belief, you are not automatically entitled to 9 vault slots every week. Great vault provides rewards for doing specific content. If you don’t want to do delves, don’t do delves. 3 less slots to choose from. You will live I think. Plus gives you more time to come here and complain about having to play a game you don’t like. Everybody wins.
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have you ever thought that
- your word could not be shared by everyone
- you are not forced to run 8 delves per week
If you run 8 delves per week, you do unfun (for you) activities just to have more possibility to achieve higher ilevel items.
You dont look for fun. You look for power.
It’s actually so easy to understand that I can’t fathom how this bears explanation.