true.
you get full gear in 1 month of gameplay
and that is enough of playing wow till 9.0 lands.
plenty other games to play .
you are absolutely correct.
trully supperior game design - for other companies besides blizzard because they are the ones who will benefit from milions stoping to play wow.
so your arguments is just because raiding is toxic and raiding guilds are abusive and toxic its TF that should be removed not those toxic guilds and toxic raiding.
thank you for proving how raiding influences rest of game negatively .
Nonsense, most people are complaining because of the RNG nature of it.
Where you have to pray that you get the perfect item, where an item has to roll +10 ilvls + it has to roll a socket and if it doesn’t then it makes you feel like you’ve wasted your time killing the boss.
The one question I ask to more casual players who like TF that doesn’t get answered is: why do you need the better gear anyway?
What’s it’s purpose, if you’re only gonna do lfr, world quests and maybe some low lvl m+, what’s the gear for?
If you don’t care about the gear then why do you care about it getting ilvls from titanforging?
I love the flower picking comment 
and I agree people aren’t going to join a guild due to the loss of TF.
You don’t have to do any of that, it’s a choice that players who are in those guilds themselves make.
They choose to take any advantage that they can get, anything to make their characters better geared so that you can have easier progress on raid bosses.
If you don’t want to do any of that then you don’t have to, nobody is forcing anyone.
You’d think that if these guilds were so toxic that people would actually leave them no?
So maybe they’re not the ones who are toxic but people who constantly say they’re toxic are.
I have no idea how you are getting any of this from what I said.
I have not stated that no. Nor was any of my comment anything to do with the removal of titanforging. It was a reply to Tsjod about reasons for raiding and having to/not having to do things in game we like.
I have never said guilds are toxic or that raiding guilds are toxic, I have never said TF should be removed because of guilds or raiding. I have explained why I don’t like Titanforging and you misquoted me on that as well in the other discussion.
“Guilds put requiremens on their players”
" At times guilds required their raiders"
“I have no idea how you are getting any of this from what I said.”
sure.
Some mythic guilds having requirements is not equal to it being toxic.
So I stand by it. I have never said guilds are toxic, raiding or otherwise.
"
" Lots of people do things they don’t enjoy in the game because they feel they will be left behind if they don’t""
nothing toxic indeed.
Because its like, whole post 120 character progression IS about getting better gear? Better gear makes everything more comfortable and faster, and people like feeling themselves getting stronger.
Again that has nothing to do with raiding or guilds. That is the plain truth of BfA for many players.
You going to call Blizzard systems toxic now?
So if the game post 120 is about getting better gear.
Why not do actual content that rewards that better gear?
Why do you have to rely on an RNG system to get that better gear.
Does it proc so often that you see yourself progressing, doing random world quests and praying that you get an upgrade.
Doesn’t sound very fun to me if I’m honest.
If you truly care about the game and your character progressing, you’d make an effort to become better and do content that actually progresses your character.
For island expeditions farm that is enough, indeed, what were you thinking about?
yes.
for years i had opinion that raiding has affected game negatively in varius ways .
just because blizzard had to protect their precious raiders and raiding we ended up with:
**1) abomination like WoD where there was 0 endgame progression besides raiding , **
2)proffesions being complete abberation of what proffesions in mmorpgs and rpgs are - again because raiding
3)dungeons being meaningless untill mythic + was implemented - again because of raiding
and many others
and i stand by my opinion.
and now they are again destroying gearing system - because raiders complained that raiding doesnt feel special anymore
we made complete cycle and are back to 6.0 in 8.3
It’s about multiple ways to get yourself a better gear. Having multiple alternatives is ALWAYS better than not having them at all, and now blizzard is removing most widely available one, once again forcing everyone into raids.
Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you’ll never get on the same gear level with raiders now, screw you.
So because you have to fill some requirements to raid, its toxic? Stupidest thing Ive read here in a while.
Blizzard have gone out of their way to make the game more and more friendly to casual players. We have so much casual content and some of it drops some very nice rewards. It’s great.
Mythic plus is an alternative to raiding for those who don’t want to commit to a raid schedule or issues relating to recruiting a big enough player pool to go. Five man teams. Obviously the format can be pugged or done in regular teams. Many raiders also do mythic plus as it’s an excellent source of trinkets, weapons etc plus the weekly cache is a nice bonus.
Raiding has nothing to do with the state of dungeons pre Mythic plus. They have always been a progressive means. If anything we do less dungeons now because they are no longer needed. I don’t need to do a random heroic on a daily basis because the rewards were too small, in Legion and WoD we were enouraged to do more Dungeons and LFR for the rewards (for completion). This expansion Heroic dungeons are pretty obsolete.
Professions are a mess, but it’s not due to raiding. Blizzard have dumbed them down so much they are worthless.
You just seem to have a lot of anger and hate for raiding but this is the most casual friend time in the history of WoW.
^ This. There should not be only one way to get to a higher ilvl. Mythic raids always have been and always will be the ultimate in pve content and through that you gain more gear and more power. However wat is wrong with someone doing m+ and getting to that same power a month later?
I heroic raid and do m+ generally between 10 and 15’s. Im sitting at 442 iilvl. There is no way bar a hell of alot of luck i will get 450 through heroic raids or m+. Mythic raiders will always be better skilled and better geared than me. Why should i be stopped from getting stronger via gear progression doing content i enjoy to appease the fragile egos of mythic raiders who will reach that ceiling way sooner than me.
But there is an alternative, it’s called pvp and m+.
You also have 4 difficulties of raids, 3 excluding lfr, that you can progress through.
Plus you have emisarries that after certain breakpoints start giving you higher ilvl loot.
You got warfronts, heroic wafront that gives you 430 ilvl loot.
You got timewalking dungeons that give 415 after you complete the quest.
Look at how many things you can get gear from and they all give different ilvl loot so there are multiple ways of progressing without relying on a stupid RNG system to give you better loot.
So with mythic being the ultimate in pve content shouldn’t it also give the best gear? Regardless of any other systems that are currently in the game.
What is wrong with just randomly getting lucky is that you didn’t work for that piece of loot, you didn’t earn it, you just got lucky.
You shouldn’t get that gear because you’re not actually working to get that gear, you’re not doing the hardest content in the game to get it.
Mythic is a lot harder and takes a lot more time than heroic so it takes away from mythic that you can get the same ilvl loot from heroic as well as mythic.
If you want to get the same gear as mythic raiders it’s simple, just raid mythic as well.
Up to a point Emissaries give nice rewards, as do many of the weekly quests, Warfront quest etc.
Edit to add - I totally forgot to mention Benthic, the catch up gear that can be upgraded with pearls.