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" Lots of people do things they don’t enjoy in the game because they feel they will be left behind if they don’t""
nothing toxic indeed.
Because its like, whole post 120 character progression IS about getting better gear? Better gear makes everything more comfortable and faster, and people like feeling themselves getting stronger.
Again that has nothing to do with raiding or guilds. That is the plain truth of BfA for many players.
You going to call Blizzard systems toxic now?
So if the game post 120 is about getting better gear.
Why not do actual content that rewards that better gear?
Why do you have to rely on an RNG system to get that better gear.
Does it proc so often that you see yourself progressing, doing random world quests and praying that you get an upgrade.
Doesn’t sound very fun to me if I’m honest.
If you truly care about the game and your character progressing, you’d make an effort to become better and do content that actually progresses your character.
For island expeditions farm that is enough, indeed, what were you thinking about?
yes.
for years i had opinion that raiding has affected game negatively in varius ways .
just because blizzard had to protect their precious raiders and raiding we ended up with:
**1) abomination like WoD where there was 0 endgame progression besides raiding , **
2)proffesions being complete abberation of what proffesions in mmorpgs and rpgs are - again because raiding
3)dungeons being meaningless untill mythic + was implemented - again because of raiding
and many others
and i stand by my opinion.
and now they are again destroying gearing system - because raiders complained that raiding doesnt feel special anymore
we made complete cycle and are back to 6.0 in 8.3
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It’s about multiple ways to get yourself a better gear. Having multiple alternatives is ALWAYS better than not having them at all, and now blizzard is removing most widely available one, once again forcing everyone into raids.
Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you’ll never get on the same gear level with raiders now, screw you.
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So because you have to fill some requirements to raid, its toxic? Stupidest thing Ive read here in a while.
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Blizzard have gone out of their way to make the game more and more friendly to casual players. We have so much casual content and some of it drops some very nice rewards. It’s great.
Mythic plus is an alternative to raiding for those who don’t want to commit to a raid schedule or issues relating to recruiting a big enough player pool to go. Five man teams. Obviously the format can be pugged or done in regular teams. Many raiders also do mythic plus as it’s an excellent source of trinkets, weapons etc plus the weekly cache is a nice bonus.
Raiding has nothing to do with the state of dungeons pre Mythic plus. They have always been a progressive means. If anything we do less dungeons now because they are no longer needed. I don’t need to do a random heroic on a daily basis because the rewards were too small, in Legion and WoD we were enouraged to do more Dungeons and LFR for the rewards (for completion). This expansion Heroic dungeons are pretty obsolete.
Professions are a mess, but it’s not due to raiding. Blizzard have dumbed them down so much they are worthless.
You just seem to have a lot of anger and hate for raiding but this is the most casual friend time in the history of WoW.
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^ This. There should not be only one way to get to a higher ilvl. Mythic raids always have been and always will be the ultimate in pve content and through that you gain more gear and more power. However wat is wrong with someone doing m+ and getting to that same power a month later?
I heroic raid and do m+ generally between 10 and 15’s. Im sitting at 442 iilvl. There is no way bar a hell of alot of luck i will get 450 through heroic raids or m+. Mythic raiders will always be better skilled and better geared than me. Why should i be stopped from getting stronger via gear progression doing content i enjoy to appease the fragile egos of mythic raiders who will reach that ceiling way sooner than me.
But there is an alternative, it’s called pvp and m+.
You also have 4 difficulties of raids, 3 excluding lfr, that you can progress through.
Plus you have emisarries that after certain breakpoints start giving you higher ilvl loot.
You got warfronts, heroic wafront that gives you 430 ilvl loot.
You got timewalking dungeons that give 415 after you complete the quest.
Look at how many things you can get gear from and they all give different ilvl loot so there are multiple ways of progressing without relying on a stupid RNG system to give you better loot.
So with mythic being the ultimate in pve content shouldn’t it also give the best gear? Regardless of any other systems that are currently in the game.
What is wrong with just randomly getting lucky is that you didn’t work for that piece of loot, you didn’t earn it, you just got lucky.
You shouldn’t get that gear because you’re not actually working to get that gear, you’re not doing the hardest content in the game to get it.
Mythic is a lot harder and takes a lot more time than heroic so it takes away from mythic that you can get the same ilvl loot from heroic as well as mythic.
If you want to get the same gear as mythic raiders it’s simple, just raid mythic as well.
Up to a point Emissaries give nice rewards, as do many of the weekly quests, Warfront quest etc.
Edit to add - I totally forgot to mention Benthic, the catch up gear that can be upgraded with pearls.
because this is an mmorpg , 4head casual.
There is less alternatives from now on. Less is not more. Less is always bad.
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From my experience raiders don’t care much about TF, most understand that at the end of the day raiding mythic yields the best gear and usually there is a clear ilvl difference between mythic, heroic or normal raiders.
I’ve been involved in discussion about titanforge for quite a while on this forum and upon inspection most people complaining about it were the ones who never set foot in mythic.
it does give the best gear… You’re telling me 445 from mythic isn’t better than 430 from any end of run m+ chest or 430 from heroic raids? And no matter how many m+ i do in a week you’ll ALWAYS get better loo t form your mythic raids than i will except if there is luck involved. I think you’ll find mythic raiders will gear QUICKER than anyone else. What does it matter if you get to 440 in 1 month and it takes someone else 3?
They did work for that loot by doing the content. Am i not worthy of my 450 belt because i got it via TF in a dung? I did the content and got lucky after many runs of getting nothing upgrade wise. Its not on you to decide who is worthy! Thats on Blizzard and if they decide that m+ and heroic raid runners can gear upto mythic level (which they cant unless real lucky with TF procs) after many more months of doing that content then thats how it is.
If it was upto you then people would have to pre-lock in the content they want to do and they couldn’t deviate.
You need to stop thinking of everything as static. Te game is not static and the progression system isnt static.
I agree. Normally raiders dont give a crap. Its people who generally think they’re superior because they do that content (which they are not). They want to protect that e-peen.
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No now you’re actually gonna have a clear progression path, something to work towards, a goal if you will.
And when you reach that goal you get an amazing feeling that you’re finally done with gearing and now can play around with that gear.
But it doesn’t, especially now, everyone who actually raids mythic has 3-4 425 ilvl pieces of benthic gear, because that gear even tho its 425 is better than 455 with a socket.
Same thing with heroic, oh look this 430 rolled a socket, guess i have to replace this 445 piece because it didn’t rng roll a socket so it’s worse.
Yes, you’re not “worthy” in my eyes to get that 450 belt because you did content that drops 430 and that is designed to be done in 420 gear.
Apparently Blizzard also seems to be more with me on this point because gear can’t upgrade (other than corrupt) in 8.3.
No, I just believe that harder content should drop better rewards, nothing to do with having to be full heroic geared before stepping into mythic.
When a new tier is released and mythic drops the week after no one is full heroic geared, but yet people still do and kill mythic bosses because of their skill.
So they also get mythic loot with mostly normal and heroic gear equipped.
And you’re blaming the players for that garbage system? You sacrifice ilvl for better ‘in raid’ bonuses. Thats ultimately your choice. Cant get salty that someone else is ‘out gearing you’ when you knowingly gimp yourself with 425 ilvl stuff even if its considered ‘bis’ because of a raid specific special effect.
I did relevant content for that gear. Yes i got lucky af with the TF but you know what. that gave me a way bigger hit of ‘oh damn sweet upgrade’ than any upgrade from a heroic boss ive got. They’re still introducing a rng based upgrade system. Its the same as TF just with added stuff tacked on. So it seem Blizzard are still wanting to give that ‘TF proc’ to everything else.
It does. Heroic = 430. mythic +10 and above = 430. Mythic raids = 445.
Why do you even play mmorpg? to have fun with friends? or just for epic loot? or you enjoy collecting things?
Raids and Dungeons are the most fun you can have with friends. And WoW is the most casual friendly mmorpg out there look at the amount of achievements and collections you can do as a solo player outside of the group content stuff.
If you keep thinking emissaries and world quest is all there is to WoW. I can say you haven’t even played WoW yet.
I am a Mythic Raider, and I care the least about titanforging or warforging. Doing Mythic raiding is usually for the sense of progress. Only reason you want better ilvl is so you can help push your guild through mythic raiding. But the ilvl comes naturally.
None of our members even farm heroic anymore, usually gearing up another alt or social members through heroic raid. Nobody farms content hoping for tf or wf.
We even bench ourselves giving other guildies opportunities for mythic raids. If everyone was stuck on tf/wf nobody will be willing to sit out in the bench, letting others have a chance.