Super rewarding content to spam emmissaries for TF…
Please explain to me how m+ and raiding is extremly toxic enivroment?
People go raiding because they want to raid. Not because of the higher gear. And honestly, why do I want a raidgroup that only does it for the gear? They are very probably the first to complain about wipes.
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I’m not sure if you even tried looking for a guild or community. I joined a couple and none of it are toxic. Look for casual social communities they usually have good people helping people with M+10 weekly runs for the 440 chest rewards. Or just find a social guild.
There are so many communities and guilds out there, if it’s toxic leave and find another. There are a lot less toxic players in wow than you think.
edit: just wanted to add I’ve never pugged any content in WoW for progress. Only pug things I have it under farm. Like now Eternal Palace Heroics are basically easy farm.
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A LOT of people raid mostly for the gear.
A LOT of people also raid for the challenge.
People are different, have different motivations, drives.
Some people want to show off their gear and therefore their skill, some people don’t care about that.
Obviously you mostly want to have people who don’t care about gear that much to avoid any drama but that’s almost impossible since a lot of people care about loot.
That must have been a terrible experience for these players then. Doing so much without having fun. In a game, in spare time. I feel for them 
Gear is part of the fun. If you don’t get upgrades then you’re not really being rewarded.
Sure, but I do the raid for the challenge. The kill is the reward. I also do a ton of M+ and try to get the all +15 achievement. THAT are my rewards. Of course I care about some gear progression, we need gear obviously. But I am definitely not going to farm +10’s or heroic raid for more chances for TF gear. It is not fun.
If you never got upgrades you’d struggle to do the content. Unless you are one of those top percentile players that can kill things in quite low gear.
The rest of us mere mortals benefit from our upgrades.
I have never farmed lower content for the chance of TF gear. I know some do though. I’m far more likely to do lower stuff for transmog items though, but once they are collected it’s done.
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Now you understand why M+, TF, emissaries and other new ways of acquiring gear became so popular.
And that’s why raiders are nonstop complaining since then, about them losing their special snowflake place on the top of the gearing progression line.
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It sounds sad to me. Spending your game time with doing things you do not like. But everyone is different.
Lots of people do things they don’t enjoy in the game because they feel they will be left behind if they don’t. Many mythic guilds put requirements on their players to reach certain neck levels and had requirements to do at least the weekly m plus. At times guilds required their raiders to hit m plus to farm gear, usually at the start of mythic raids, or their best trinkets (or other item) came from dungeons so it was non stop hitting the same M plus until it dropped.
There are lots of things in the game people do that they don’t necessarily enjoy. Various rep grinds, essence grinds, AP grind etc etc etc. the game is full of things.
If you are a player who doesn’t care about anything and doesn’t have any targets set for you and you only ever do the things that you want to then that is great. Not everyone is in that same boat.
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I think my statement is getting a bit exaggerated. Of course I am picking up some flowers myself too. But i responded on this message.
And I do not think people are going to join a guild for raiding just because they lost titanforging. Those 2 things are just too far away from each other.
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true.
you get full gear in 1 month of gameplay
and that is enough of playing wow till 9.0 lands.
plenty other games to play .
you are absolutely correct.
trully supperior game design - for other companies besides blizzard because they are the ones who will benefit from milions stoping to play wow.
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so your arguments is just because raiding is toxic and raiding guilds are abusive and toxic its TF that should be removed not those toxic guilds and toxic raiding.
thank you for proving how raiding influences rest of game negatively .
Nonsense, most people are complaining because of the RNG nature of it.
Where you have to pray that you get the perfect item, where an item has to roll +10 ilvls + it has to roll a socket and if it doesn’t then it makes you feel like you’ve wasted your time killing the boss.
The one question I ask to more casual players who like TF that doesn’t get answered is: why do you need the better gear anyway?
What’s it’s purpose, if you’re only gonna do lfr, world quests and maybe some low lvl m+, what’s the gear for?
If you don’t care about the gear then why do you care about it getting ilvls from titanforging?
I love the flower picking comment 
and I agree people aren’t going to join a guild due to the loss of TF.
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You don’t have to do any of that, it’s a choice that players who are in those guilds themselves make.
They choose to take any advantage that they can get, anything to make their characters better geared so that you can have easier progress on raid bosses.
If you don’t want to do any of that then you don’t have to, nobody is forcing anyone.
You’d think that if these guilds were so toxic that people would actually leave them no?
So maybe they’re not the ones who are toxic but people who constantly say they’re toxic are.
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I have no idea how you are getting any of this from what I said.
I have not stated that no. Nor was any of my comment anything to do with the removal of titanforging. It was a reply to Tsjod about reasons for raiding and having to/not having to do things in game we like.
I have never said guilds are toxic or that raiding guilds are toxic, I have never said TF should be removed because of guilds or raiding. I have explained why I don’t like Titanforging and you misquoted me on that as well in the other discussion.
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“Guilds put requiremens on their players”
" At times guilds required their raiders"
“I have no idea how you are getting any of this from what I said.”
sure.
Some mythic guilds having requirements is not equal to it being toxic.
So I stand by it. I have never said guilds are toxic, raiding or otherwise.