Okay…? And who are those people you’re talking about? Because I have legit not seen anyone here defend Sylvanas’ ( or anyone else’s actions in the game ) by saying yes, genocide, torture etc are totally okay irl.
I agree with you, if anyone says that sort of things it would indeed be sick and disturbing. But I haven’t seen it, honestly.
Like, I’m a troll fan but that doesn’t mean I think cannibalism is a good thing irl And luckily most people who play this game are equally able to distinguish between fiction and reality.
If you have experienced otherwise, the burden of proof is on you. Without it, your thread comes off as nothing else than yet another attempt at baseless bashing on horde players.
When you point something out, and someone asks for it, you are usually subject to providing evidence of it. They asked why you used Sylvanas in specific as the subject to your claims, when there are a heck tonnes of others doing the very same thing.
That is what is being underlined here. If you still don’t get it, I don’t know what to say or screenshot and circle in red for you.
EDIT: Post above pretty much cleans it up in its entirety.
You have to go back 2 years in order to try and find examples of something you initially labelled as a current trend?
Yeah…
This may sound as bias kicking in, but I’ve seen far far more often, cases of people that try to condemn fictional characters/themes (and those players that find them enjoyable), using said sort or RL moral system you speak of.
To be honest, it feels like Sylvanas is such a trendy topic, not because of her fans, but because of her “haters”.
I didn’t think that something which was so incredibly common during BFA would need to have hard evidence attached to it. “It’s not genocide” “it is but so what it’s war” “torture happens in war and whatabout whatabout whataboutery”. This was pretty much the whole way through BFA.
I mean if you agree that that should be disturbing then that’s fine. If you don’t agree that that was commonplace im not going to go looking for links from 3 years ago for you but it seems to me to be a flat out historical revision of the narrative during bfa
At this point, this thread is pretty much a unanimous agreement that yes, it is a sickening act that there are, were or have been posters that did or do this kind of thing, but without context or actual evidence, all this just seems to conclude in a tornado of confusion with an eye of the storm that says:
“Yes”.
Don’t know if that was the point of this thread to begin with, but… sure. Sure.
Yes yes, but you still have to present evidence that people were saying those things were okay irl. Or why this is an “alarming trend” when it happened 3 years ago.
In game, yes, Teldrassil was a genocide as per Elegy. ( And despite the fact that, as described in the very same short story, so many Night Elves survived that they were able to fill half of Stormwind ).
Was it bad? Definitely yes. And yet, such things are pretty common in warcraft. Are you sad about the genocide of the Amani during the Troll Wars? Or all the other non-playable races we keep wiping out as the heroes of this game?
So what is your point, really? Yeah, the horde are the baddies, we’ve figured as much at least since bfa. It’s hardly something we asked for, though, or what Blizzard did because they think horde players are all bad people irl.
No it is not. This is a fantasy game. What would be disturbing is people being ok with genocide because it happens in a fantasy game.
Come on. War is bad, so we cannot play Red Alert? Age of Empires?
Shooting people dead is bad so we cannot play Pubg? Fortnite?
Gambling is addictive so cancel all the poker simulators?
No pain in the Lady’s light, in the Lady’s love. Mother and child both slept, breathing gently despite the smoke. Her duty faithfully discharged, Astarii allowed her own eyelids to flutter closed.
There will be justice, one day, but eyes other than ours will behold it.
The last thing she heard was a cracking sound as she slipped into slumber.
Possible.
Devs like to undermine that side of the game for quite some time already.
In canon (Chronicles) Tirion killed Arthas.
IMO not having the forsaken and blood elves in the event is one of the most WTH moments for me in WoW story.
I’m talking about the story that follows the events as they unfold, instead of dropping whenever convenient.
Nope.
IMO it was a stupid idea on the dev side to talk about the game in irl-morals terms. Yet they did. So we’re stuck with it.
What I would prefer, is to develop the factions more so they would have more clear ideology and PoV expressed. Then it would be easy to use those as a point of reference. So far there is nothing sadly. One of many missteps IMO.
Hey, if they took money and were talking about one thing, and then backpedal, it’s not my problem. Not going to get over it, as that is a sensitive topic for me (false advertisement).
The point is not in winning, but in labeling thing according to how the expansion was advertised.
There is no point to save the world, because blizz is not going to cancel the game while it’s profitable. Hence whatever we do, Azeroth will be fine. Might as well have some fun in the process instead of cheap moralizing from the devs.
Hey, if we can burn Orgrimmar to the ground and then hop into another expansion to get away from the consequences, you can go take a sit at Stormwind all you want. Waiting to join Yrel. Would be fair play.
But to be honest I do not mind regardless. One Anduin less is not a big deal. Might even sacrifice Velen, he’s old and been through a lot anyway.
What’s the point in bringing it up when you dismiss what other feel?
I would not care one bit, because the game is turning into ret-con fiesta to the point that I see the expansion as a fanfic that does not care one bit about the origins of the game or why people started playing it.
How do we go from one of these things to the other. The ENTIRE POINT is to stress that trying to take in game things and justifying them in broader more general terms and in real life is pretty messed up. In order to not trigger total snowflakes i even specifically said that its perfectly fine to live out the lore and enjoy it! I was at pains to give this disclaimer repeatedly and yet over and over i get this strawman nonsense
That those themes won’t take root, and just serve as convenience tool instead of anything else. The concept of factions in such state might as well be removed. And it might be on the way there.
I do not think this term was ever used before BfA. I have no idea how it even could appear in-universe. Seems like the devs trying to exploit the emotions for the marketing purposes.
I don’t. And I find the whole idea rather silly. But it will happen. Because the devs themselves speak about the morality and use irl morals for that instead of properly developing the in-universe ideas.
Once again they picked the path of least resistence and it will bite them in the future.
[I regret not saving the exact place where Danuser was talking about teaching the players moral lessons, but I dig it out one day, I’ll be sure to save the source]
Where is it red vs. blue when I have to take all those bastards from Torghast? I would gladly leave Thrall and Jaina there, let them enjoy the time together. Iconic duo after all, they would have all the time in the universe there.
Unfortunately, the origins of things and stories is not something the current dev team cares much about.
Their intention about the horde is stated clear:
give a chance for the Horde to look inward and maybe become something new
Their opinion about red vs. blue is stated too:
There’s going to be a real self-examination of what the Alliance is about, and how they want to behave. Do they want to get revenge on the Horde, or do they want to build a better world?
Needless to say, knowing one’s audience is of great importance for commercial products. And because instead of focusing or exploring and reinforcing what people like in the game, they decided to replace it with their own wishes. Which led to the only realistic outcome that could happen IMO.
The devs in their fantasy had:
But shaping what those factions mean in the world and how they interact with one another? That’s something this expansion really allows us to focus on and resolve in a way that will be satisfying for players on both sides.
And you know really well how satisfied both sides are with what the devs did in BfA (and how the resentment brewing as Shadowlands progress forward).
Feel free to do so. We got so many and so consistent question about the players to group together as the only logical conclusion of the narrative, that for a lot of people the handling of the faction story is falling apart if there is anything standing at all nowadays.
The pattern is, the devs force the characters to act in a way that barely make any sense, then run away from the consequences. Or so I see it.
Nothing says “faction pride” so much as Saurfang screaming “for Azeroth” and not admitting existence or value of the horde in the pivotal moment. Or not having key characters at Orgrimmar on alliance side. I mean, if that’s what “pride” is for you, you do you.
To me - yup. Precisely. Anduin is all about it, with the devs selflessly dismissing any chance of him not succeeding. Jaina - Thrall is the same. And so on.
That will happen only when the alliance will focus on the alliance, and the horde - on question of the horde. But that is how I see it. When the expansion starts with everyone silencing the only person who questions this parody of cooperation (the Chilling Summons quest), that is the only message I see. And as expansion progresses, the more the devs try to invalidate the existing faction tension.
Baine did not care one bit about what happened until it was narratively convenient. As I did the horde 8.0 quest, I saw only one character talking about the take on the tree™ story, etc.
Apprentice Telemancer Astrandis:
Let there be no confusion on where we stand, name.
And all of them suddenly started acting after the Derek part. Because burning children is not a big deal. But a brother of a dev favourite? Now that changes everything.
Well, they sure did tell the story in BfA that satisfied both sides (/s)
BFA started with the cinematic of the druid RP tree being burned down.
What you linked is lyrics.
Again another bad excuse.
WAR inside WARcraft is not undermining.
The game was built in faction wars between the alliance and horde, that wont change.
After WE did all the dirty job he said his “oh light mambo wambo magic spell” and he defeated him? Nope.
But as it seems youre dropping only convinient facts that you twist around and bend to your will because you need to whine about loosing in just one xpc…
You choose to stick with it and you also claim you see them talking about morality, i didnt and i dont care about something fictional to be morally accepted.
If you do, shut off your TV because there is 0 morality there and you end up SJW-ing everything.
Eplained this above, you took things how you wanted and dreamt of. That doesnt mean whatever you “understand” is what people mean.
BFA started with the RP tree being burned down, that was the advertisement.
Which is according to the lyrics you took as advertise your justice against sylvanas which is again WINNING.
Are you being serious now or trying to troll with cheap excuses?
You did burn DazarAlor and UC with 0 consequences, you also did burn Org during MoP.
Let me guess, you forgot these because you already made a snowflake excuse for your actions like a good alliance angel
You keep demanding a solid victory and just because you lost once it became an issue and a problem of “JUSTICE” and “FALSE ADVERTISEMENT” and whatever your brains will bring up to justify your shattered EGO, if you care about feelings then you should not dismiss mine that want your faction to start loosing AGAIN AND AGAIN.
You demand consequences for the burning of the RP tree, i told you that you already had invaded DazarAlor, stole gold and killed the king while you did destroy the UC as well.
So if you think there should be consequences i think yes there should be but not against the horde.
You demand justice AKA to win something that you already lost.
Are we gonna play seek and hide for more?
There is no point, since you won’t find the “victory” thing.
That is not about the horde, but about the approach of the devs who can dismiss or pull out the story threads on a whim. Which is not what I could call a decent story.
And luckily most people who play this game are equally able to distinguish between fiction and reality.
