I mean, it was clearly a trap, a fact of which both sides were unaware at the time and only learned about later. It was no one’s fault really. But horrible lack of communication just as you say.
whatever you say, buddy 
They would’ve if the whole thing hadn’t been a death trap designed to kill them all.
Curious how the Alliance blames the Horde about letting them die there, when it was their own intel that led both factions into the slaughterhouse.
The Horde at least gave a signal for retreat that the Alliance heard loud and clear.
Where was the Alliance apology or explanation for leading the Horde into said trap and having their Warchief killed? The Horde had more reasons to blame the Alliance than the Alliance had to blame the Horde.
Wait until Blizz finds a way to blame Sylvanas for it. 
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Zarao accusing me of not knowing the lore when every 2nd post he makes is full of blatant lies and cheap Horde propaganda.
Fact: The expedition into Stormheim ever had only 1 goal - capturing Eyir. Whether or not you peons knew about it is irrelevant.
Fact: If Genn did NOT attack, Sylvanas would have been nigh immortal. He literally saved Azeroth from that undying wench. In my opinion, you should be on your knees thanking Genn.
This is undisputed lore. If you still want to claim otherwise, you’re delusional and/or under some mind control.
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Fact: You don’t know the lore.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Are you familiar with the vrykul? Towering, brutish warriors from an ancient stock. Subtlety is not a value they hold in high regard.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Their legends speak of the Aegis of Aggramar. To claim it, one must undergo some kind of trial. One must be… worthy.
[…]
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I trust you are more than capable of handling whatever trials stand between you and the Aegis.
And circling back to your initial premise:
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Truthfully, Stormheim holds another treasure. One that I will be pursuing by my own means.
Yep, you are wrong. Check on the story you are arguing about before randomly pointing fingers and calling names at players.
Yeah, I rather not praise or condemn actions that essentially were but a fortuitous series of events that somehow achieved a goal that wasn’t even intended in the first place.
If that was the case, the Horde would have yet more reasons to blame Varian for preventing Thrall from killing Garrosh and causing both the Iron Horde and the Legion invasion.
Gambling on “I will try and kill this guy and hope that something good comes out of it” doesn’t pay off all that much, most of the time. 
I’d rather not keep discussing this matter with someone who keeps on spinning their same age old agenda of his Sylvanas actually gave a toss about the Horde or the Legion invasion. All that stuff about the Aegis you posted is a distraction. You yourself even later posted her true goal, which she didn’t even bother telling her horde peon.
Here’s another fact for you: Ever since she killed herself after the death of Arthas and subsequently made contact with the Jailor, everything she has done was to push her evil agenda through any means necessary. Whether it be increasing tensions between the Horde and the Alliance (her experiments in Southshore, the PoW in Undercity, her expedition in Stormheim) with ultimately culminating the debacle that is BfA.
Here is another fact: You helped her achieve her goals by blindly following her sketchy assignments that were borderline genocidal.
The only thing I agree with you is that Thrall should have killed Garrosh. Varian made a mistake, that is true. Not because of the Iron Horde, which was a failure because it was run by idiotic Orcs, but because it set up the eventual invasion of the Light with Yrel basically getting uncontested Draenor.
So now that we established the fact that you guys blindly following Sylvanas directly caused the events of Shadowlands, despite the Alliance trying numerous times to defuse the situation throughout the years, will you still attempt to claim your innocence?
Btw, we are still waiting for reparations for Theramore. This century maybe?
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All that stuff about the Aegis is the lone driving goal behind the deployment of the Forsaken fleet in Stormheim.
It highlights the fact that regardless of her ulterior motives, the Horde fleet was in Stormheim to pursue the Aegis and stop the Legion.
And that’s the effort Genn hindered when he randomly decided to take the chance and try to kill them all alongside Sylvanas.
Her having additional goals in mind does not negate the purpose, or the actions, of the Horde troops deployed in said zone.
Specially when said additional goals she had, were pursued by her alone, without involving the bulk of the military effort sent there.
So yeah, fact stands, that Genn launched an unprovoked attack against forces whose goal was none other than to halt a demonic invasion, while trying to kill the head of state of the faction (who coincidentally had further goals in mind Genn didn’t know about).
Voljin gave the Order to retreat, she just carried it out.
I think Genn would shake the fist to the heaven and shout “SYLVANAS” if he steps into a pile of dogpoo, or his milk goes sour at this point…
It was a trap engineered with wrong intel given by a Dreadlord who had replaced shaw. That’s basically the whole Rogue Campaign
Pardon for intrusion - but wouldn’t disappearance of Eyir the hatcher of Valkyr would piss Odin off with Aiges at hand?
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And why would that be relevant regarding the motives and actions of Genn?
Him being lucky enough to randomly stumble upon something that could potentially have a negative effects in the long term, doesn’t negate the fact that when he attacked the Horde he was (1) attacking forces that as far as they knew, were simply trying to defend the world from the demonic invasion, and (2) did so out of personal spite, with the intention of killing the head of state of the opposite faction. Truce be damned.
You see, can’t stress enough how irrelevant the whole Eyir bit is in this whole thing.
It wasn’t a concern either side had.
It wasn’t a motive that drove the Alliance to attack the Horde.
It wasn’t the goal of the Horde forces deployed there.
In all, for everyone involved, the situation was that of an Alliance leader that dumped a truce and tried to assassinate the leader of the opposite faction because of some past personal grudge.
That’s it.
Him getting lucky and preventing some side effect that he found out about, AFTER carrying out said attack, does not erase in any way the nature of his actions.
And if that’s the approach we are to have from now on, we might start killing each other, gambling on “Well, they COULD be doing something bad”.
Ps: And even then, Genn would still be following on a different reasoning. Because he decided to attack, not because he suspected anything, but simply because he wanted to.
No, I don’t mean Genn or pointing it out to somehow “excuse” the action. We have established that I think.
No, not directly, but overall it would undermine the operation vs Legion.
Party True.
Partly true, but nonetheless it was a great reason to mask her own intentions. Which is what I am asking - wouldnt her actions put at risk the main goal of Horde - Aiges of Agrammar ?
Knowing how we had to prove ourselves and showcase that we are worthy to even enter the Odin’s heaven sanctum, breaking the system would pour water on our mill.
You see, here I say he had a reason to do so, but that doesn’t really justify his actions and he got lucky,
But that is punishable - but when you ARE caught doing something bad then there goes your retaliation from the window.
But overall I aint asking about Genn, I purely asked this question about Horde’s two mission and how I found each bit contradicting.
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I honestly wouldn’t bother responding to that guy. He never admits when he’s wrong, and he’ll just keep resetting the argument forever, bringing up points already discounted or disproven again and again.
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That’s probable.
Or maybe not.
Odyn seemed rather fine with allowing Skovald to undergo the trials for the Aegis, to the point it was but mere timing that prevented him from claiming it.
Even if he was working for the Legion, and regardless of how he trashed about Odyn subjects and rituals (be that by enslaving the thorignir, or almost killing Yotnar).
He may have had personal reasons to do so. But fact remains, that regardless of his personal motives, he was subject to the same truce as everyone else was at that time.
Whether he liked it or not, is irrelevant. He was obliged to comply and follow on the same rules agreed by the leaders of both factions.
And should’ve expected the according backlash for acting against it.
Given the Horde was signalled that he didn’t, the message they received was heard loud and clear: The Alliance wasn’t committed to the armistice, and would strike at the Horde if they sensed any sort of opening.
The only way I see they would mash together, is if Sylvanas had sent a second round of ships because of the losses caused by the Alliance in that first clash. And these were stranded in Azsuna around the time when the pc was still working on reaching the Aegis.
Maybe this second fleet was the one that established the southern settlement found near Skold-ashil.
And what points would them be?
Anthropea grasping at a fortuitous occurrence Genn stumbled upon, after carrying out an attack with completely different motivations, to excuse his actions?.
The fact that the Horde army there was expressively pursuing a goal about halting the demonic invasion, while Sylvanas went to do her stuff by herself without involving anyone else?
Or is it the fact that the whole thing, could (and was), be seen by the Horde as a worrying signal that highlights how the Alliance is unable or unwilling to commit to the compromises of a truce?
It’s not grasping when it’s true. Genn had ample reasons to attack the Horde in Stormheim, as I mentioned twice already. Had he not done so, Azeroth would have been royally screwed. Why can’t you get that?
Need I remind you that the Horde broke treaties with the Alliance before (an example was the Horde attacking the Alliance in Ashran under false pretenses, even after your Warchief declared an end to open hostilities). How many backstabs do you think you guys are entitled to? I am sorry but I completely agree with Genn’s motivations for what he did in Stormheim after the Horde abandoned the Alliance on the Broken Shore. And if you’re going to argue that they didn’t, I might as well tell you that Sylvanas could have easily sent a messenger to Varian, telling them of the retreat order. But she didn’t.
In all honesty, I don’t think your guys deserved a second chance after the Wrathgate, but for story purposes you did. Then Garrosh happened. Again you got forgiven. Then Ashran. THEN Teldrassil. I really can’t see how this wouldn’t be considered an act of open aggression in any realistic scenario.
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that genn is a king in his own right and anduin can’t do anything to punish him ? what is more strange is that Sky Admiral Rogers was not put in chains and tossed into the stockade for both disobeying orders and losing her ship
Sky Admiral Rogers reckless actions caused the loss of the alliance flagship and the death of her men if this was real life she would have been Court-martial’ed
Genn is a King, but deployed as a general under the High-King and Commander in Chief of the Alliance Forces, commanding Alliance Troops, for an Alliance Mission.
By any right Anduin could and should have punished him.
actually that’s not how it seems to work the alliance is a colalition of states everyone is technically equal but as high king anduin can request and lead the alliance forces as a whole meaning anduin can do nothing to genn because anduin does not out rank genn they are equal national leaders even if gilneas is a blighted ruin 
i know blizzard does a really horrible job of showing this but that’s how it works there for the only person anduin has direct authority to punish is Sky Admiral Rogers
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Even without real punishment, he could banish him from his court, remove him from his close advisor position, never give him a command of alliance troops again or punish him indirectly in any other way possible, but it’s basically “You broke the truth? OH NO! anyways where were we?”
technically graymane did not command the troops of the skyfire (?) he had a secret deal with sky admiral rogers he was basically just along for the rid Sky Admiral rogers has always hated the horde ever since they destroyed her hometown of southshore at the hands of the forsaken so her going along with graymane on a secret revenge plan is totally in her character
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Like what??
You are grasping at stuff he discovered afterwards to try and excuse the stuff he did upon arriving.
You are trying to argue that the attack against the Horde forces and Sylvanas, was in some way motivated by stuff that he stumbled upon after carrying out said attack.
Stuff he didn’t even know about until the very end.
Because said reasoning is idiotic. If we are to judge whether the Horde would give the Alliance any credit regarding their commitment to any truce, having Genn randomly stumbling upon some ulterior plot a single person is carrying out behind the scenes, is irrelevant.
He attacked the Horde forces trying to prevent a demonic invasion, during a ceasefire, while targeting the leader of the opposite faction. And did so, not because he was concerned about some plan, or the well-being of anyone involved, but because he wanted to settle a past grudge and DIDNT CARE about the fact that there was an ongoing truce.
And in BfA, that attitude was used to exemplify why the Alliance could not be trusted to keep their word regarding peace.
There is no way around it.
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Ashram was an ongoing skirmish of dubious canonicity that had expeditionary forces killing each other much like other segments have been doing throughout the entire games history in the other bg locations around the globe.
And I don’t care about any whataboutism.
The events in Stormheim were plot relevant enough to be acknowledged as a deal breaker regarding the Horde respect for the truce.
Had Genn not done such, Sylvanas wouldn’t have had grounds to kickstart the 4th war.
Not without instantly triggering against her the lone guy in charge of most of the Hordes military.
This logic is amazing.
The Horde is now to be blamed for the actions of traitors that killed about as many Horde soldiers as Alliance ones.
If you want to argue about Alliance commitment to peace, the example where Night elves decided to break the truce after blaming on the Horde, stuff the faction actually CONDEMNED and prosecuted (something Anduin never did with Genn), then you’ll have a hard time.