Any Hong Kong people on this server?

[Desartin-argent-dawn (Desartin)]

Athramus, the simple truth is the chess-analogy from earlier.

This server is simply made for the chess-players. They want to play and discuss chess here. There is no logic to justify the football-players ( the non-rp’ers) to come here and start talking about football when there are way more servers out there for them to discuss and play football. And since this is the last chess-house out here, I can understand people really well when they rather not see more non-chess players come here if they have no inclination to try at all.

Your points have consistently been rebuked and debunked by many players in this thread, and not all of them were hostile. There comes a moment where you simply need to say ’ Okay I had it wrong, my mistake."

[Vilem-argent-dawn (Vilem)]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

What kind of fallacy is that, exactly?
Arguing that a problem isn’t X but rather Y isn’t a fallacy at all.

It’s a red herring, you’re trying to distract from the OOC argument by saying whatever you’re trying to say about ‘those damn roleplayers’.

And you’ve been feigning/appealing to ignorance this entire thread (namely your own).

And if you really want to go down this road I’ll point out another one all over your posts, unfortunately I can’t use the latin as Blizzard doesn’t like one of the words but I’ll post the translation: “with this therefore because of this” (that means you’re trying to draw a causal link between two issues that aren’t linked).

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

@Desartin-argent-dawn

Your points have consistently been rebuked and debunked by many players in this thread, and not all of them were hostile.

No, many of them weren’t hostile. Especially afterwards (rather than initially). But frankly my reply to Aerilen and Watrus has been conveniently ignored. Said points weren’t debunked or rebuked. People just started to memepost and then the discussion began anew.

@Vilem-argent-dawn

It’s a red herring, you’re trying to distract from the OOC argument by saying whatever you’re trying to say about ‘those damn roleplayers’.

I’m afraid but I didn’t introduce them into the discourse. The point was that harassment comes from nonRPers such as Epoch. I didn’t bring it up myself. Furthermore if they are found out to be RPers then it is pertinent to the argument, because it is linked to the fact that also RPers do harass and troll other RPers, which is something that Vixi (kinda) dismissed as a problem

(and yes, it’s related to this discussion because it means the pools of harassers isn’t restricted to just OOCers but also RPers aswell, meaning that targeting nonRPers will never really solve entirely the situation)

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

Yet it was also said that people stopped bothering doing events because of trolls and that is the real reason rp died there

So you remember that someone did say that all nonRPers are a bad category? Why even bother to ask for evidence?

Are you for real? Did you actually read the post or are just trying and failing to be right?

[Vilem-argent-dawn (Vilem)]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

I’m afraid but I didn’t introduce them into the discourse. The point was that harassment comes from nonRPers such as Epoch. I didn’t bring it up myself. Furthermore if they are found out to be RPers then it is pertinent to the argument, because it is linked to the fact that also RPers do harass and troll other RPers, which is something that Vixi (kinda) dismissed as a problem

The discussion was about OOCers, not roleplayers - that is an entirely unrelated problem.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

See? There’s ambiguity in your words. You agree that harassers are the issue, not nonRPers by default. But below you encourage people to be rude to nonRPers to the point of making them transfer from the server!

I don’t see the ambiguity? I’m saying that a near overwhelming -majority- of people harassing roleplayers are in fact OOC players, which comes from the problem that there are so many of them on AD and thinking its a good place to be for purposes other than roleplaying.

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

If they aren’t at a fault there’s no need to make so much propaganda against nonRPers as the root of all evil. You can’t blame an entire category for what a sub-category does.

They are at fault though, because it promotes the bad to come as well and as acceptable. So yeah, I do blame it.

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

I’m sure masses of outsiders are eager to read this conversation to make up their mind and transfer to AD.

Not at all what I said. The passive advertising is if there is a large presence of OOC players here, it will attract more to come.

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

Yeah, that borders on trolling and harassment. Which is de facto against Blizzard’s rules.

It would be, if it wasn’t the fact that those threads never reached trolling. Allow me to make an example of how one of the threads in which the person then went “Ill pick another realm, you guys are hostile” has gone:

Person A makes a thread asking about PvE or PvP activities, also states in their post then don’t like roleplay and isnt interested.

A few people ask why they are choosing AD.

Person A responds -immediatly- that they should shut up, get of their thread and go die.

People say that due to the attitude, the realm might not be for them.

Person A complains that AD is full of “think-skinned nerds” and complains about picking a diffrent realm instead.

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

I agree but if anything, it tells that the problem isn’t limited to nonRPers. RPers in Epoch can be as toxic and can harass players just as much as certain nonRPers.

That is because the roleplayers in Epoch aren’t roleplayers, but rather “xD roleplaying is so meme, I will roleplay that I am playing tbc, or that I am a person with tourettes attacking people xDD”

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

Can’t make names (name and shame)but I am thinking of Alliance players. Like one that starts with V- and bragged to actively stalk other role-players to take the worst screenshots to ruin other people’s reputation. Role-players can be adorable people right?

I know there are some unfriendly people as roleplayers too. As I’ve shared before, one of my most personally hurtful experiences was thanks to a specific Alliance roleplayer from a relativly “popular” guild, due to how said person was completly horrible to me OOC.

Roleplayers have alot of Drama, but that doesn’t completly invalidate that OOCers in AD is a huge problem in itself. One issue doesn’t remove the other, so to speak.

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

Are you for real? Did you actually read the post or are just trying and failing to be right?

I am very much. Your point returned to be that of Aerilen. Which is reasonable and well-written, but with whom I partially disagreed with already.

But it also admits that you do remember that some people did claim that nonRPers cause damage to the server by default. And you also claimed no one did in this thread.

@Vilem-argent-dawn

The discussion was about OOCers, not roleplayers - that is an entirely unrelated problem.

The discussion is about the damage that OOCers inflict upon the RP community. If one example reveals to be, rather than nonRPers, actually RP which harass other RPers, then it is a very much pertinent to the argument in question.

I don’t think it forces you to rephrase your position (did you even bothered to formulate one clearly?) but surely forces certain players like Vixi to reconsider certain statements.

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

But it also admits that you do remember that some people did claim that nonRPers cause damage to the server by default. And you also claimed no one did in this thread.

Oocers that grief others are the ones being mentioned, not all of them, read the post before making stuff up.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

but surely forces certain players like Vixi to reconsider certain statements.

What statements should I reconsider exactly? My statements have been that “OOCer’s are doing alot of damage to the community”, in general. And that’s an issue.

Just because other issues also exist doesn’t invalidate that. Nor have I claimed that if you get rid of OOCers then all problems are fixed, tadaa.

[Vilem-argent-dawn (Vilem)]

Don’t wear the thesaurus plugin on your browser out now.

There’s no point me ‘formulating a position’ against you, as all you bring to the table is the same reiterated point ad infinitum with the occasional tweak to the verbiage.

Instead I will continue to enjoy pointing out how wrong you are, and how you are a clown.

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

@Vixí-argent-dawn

They are at fault though, because it promotes the bad to come as well and as acceptable. So yeah, I do blame it.

You’re basically saying that the problem isn’t harassment here, but nonRPers by themselves by virtue of being non roleplayers. This is what I disagree with.

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

Oocers that grief others are the ones being mentioned, not all of them, read the post before making stuff up.

Read above. Let’s not strawman also. I immediately clarified that I know people don’t think each single OOCer is bad, but they blame the entire category by virtue of being made of OOCers, and that’s honestly undeniable. Read the statement below:

@Vixí-argent-dawn

OOCers in AD is a huge problem in itself.

@Vixí-argent-dawn

Just because other issues also exist doesn’t invalidate that. Nor have I claimed that if you get rid of OOCers then all problems are fixed, tadaa.

For one, it forces you to reconsider the epoch example.

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

Let’s not strawman also. I immediately clarified that I know people don’t think each single OOCer is bad, but they blame the entire category by virtue of being made of OOCers, and that’s honestly undeniable.

Funny how you keep on editing your posts in an attempt to validate a point that’s been proven wrong time and again.

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

@Zagkush-argent-dawn

Funny how you keep on editing your posts in an attempt to validate a point that’s been proven wrong time and again.

I mostly edit for the sake of order and grammar. Can you answer me: do you agree with this statement or not?

@Vixí-argent-dawn

You can’t blame an entire category for what a sub-category does.

They are at fault though, because it promotes the bad to come as well and as acceptable. So yeah, I do blame it.

If you do, you’re picking it up with the whole category. All the OOCers on AD are at a fault. If you don’t, then I might agree with you, most likely.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

You’re basically saying that the problem isn’t harassment here, but nonRPers by themselves by virtue of being non roleplayers. This is what I disagree with.

It is not my central point, so if it comes across so, then I apologise. It is a little of both, I’ll try to explain again what I mean a little better.

Harassment is the primary concern, because it is just never okay. Secondary concern is that it’s simply factual, like seriously so, that a majority of it comes from nonRPers. Not all of them, at all.

But the fact that many nonRPers(and my definition of it is someone who is here, but has no desire to roleplay whatsoever and never will) exists, does invite others to come. And with them, there will be people who are toxic because it’s become a part of the nonRper culture, alot thanks to streamers and youtubers.

And a large majority of nonRPers choose AD for things like “it has alot of players” or “I got friends here”, with no desire to rp at all. And that again, only triggers more people to come for those reasons, and it becomes an issue. Since the primary reason should be “I want to try roleplay”

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

For one, it forces you to reconsider the epoch example.

The epoch example works fine though? Because they are a prime example of the -worst- kind of people that comes with nonRPers(And just as a whole), and as many have stated, they don’t have any roleplayers among their guild outside of trolls who meme it.

[Zagkush-argent-dawn]

@Athramus-argent-dawn-257317

Can you answer me: do you agree with this statement or not?

Yes, I do, oocers in general are a plague to this server. Do I mean to shame one and all non rpers? No, but i do think if they don’t have intention to rp then choose another server.

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

So the entire category is at a fault, Zagkush? Because this is the position you guys had denied before.

@Vixí-argent-dawn

The replies are mixed but before people were basically implying that nonRPers are bad on argent dawn by default.

That’s both false and kinda the point.

@Vixí-argent-dawn

It is not my central point,

Originally one of the main points was you claiming that my dissent was absurd, because no one found the entire category of OOCers at a fault. Yet here we are, with you guys claiming this exact thing right now.

[anon64609363]

What is your whole deal with starting and continuing arguments for literally no reason?

[Athramus-argent-dawn-257317]

…because arguments rule, duh.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

No, I found your dissent absurd because your point was that “Because not all OOCers do bad stuff and I have only seen it once, then -all- concerns are invalidated”

Then I was trying to explain my point of view to you.

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

I think it’s prudent to stop. He’s not going to change his mind, it’s getting to a point where his apparent view is looking like trolling. Nobody can be this oblivious, surely?