Dude, you cry about DH in every single forum, DH is not undertunned, it’s actually a strong class (in PvE, kinda bad in Arenas) i’n my guild we’re 4 DHs in progress and when we do rotations we barely rotate (I’m still in trial the only day I got rotation was the 1st day in MM coz I was new to the guild) we’re all between middle and top dd in every kill we’ve done. I m+ we’re gods, yea some classes may have better aoe or st, but we bring an hybrid source of dmg that make us that strong.
We also can make party avoid some mechanics to make the run easier (TD las boss shot, we can take every single of them and dodge it with BD, KR 3rd posse we can take the tank debuf hit and dodge it, we can take the charge solo, etc)
Darkness can be god (add a darkness+totem link on a high raid dmg spell and enjoy ur numbers).
we have good survival tools (I remember in HC CoL in BoD) tanking as havoc the boss for 2 minutes while both of the tanks died… Maybe you should buy some hands to start learning to play and stop QQ too much coz everyone in forums is getting tired of u 
Slight problem, almost every fight this raid is ST.
So what, do we sit sub par until the next tier, in 3 months?
Any class can do a +10 and anything above +10 doesn’t matter for gearing.
Actually it says a lot.
if they were among the best they’d have high representation. They do not.
???
I showed the guy rogues are better DPS.
And by doing so you also showed that DH’s are among the top dps…
Being behind 5 classes isn’t top DPS, it’s average.
When the only viable role for a DH in a raid is Havoc DPS, being average is REALLY bad. It’s literally the only spec you can play in Mythic raiding and it’s not even good.
Funny you say that cause if I look at logs I’m ahead of you on the 3 bosses you logged.
So maybe take your own advice.
Cant be the top of the top in every aspect of PvE. Every spec has to have some downsides. stop qqing.
If DH are 6th in the logs from all dps specs then the spec is in a great spot. Average is being mid of the pack which DH is not.
Except it’s topping in nothing? It has great AoE. Woopty doo, this raid is all about ST damage. This is like saying you have the biggest peni$ at a lesbian party, it’s useless.
It’s not 6th in the logs, it’s 6th of all classes. And out of 13 classes that’s literally average. Middle of the pack.
When you factor in that DH has only 2 specs and 1 is useless ( Veng ) Havoc should be freaking brilliant, not average.
Just row Shadow priest then and stop this nonsense.
Havoc is in the upper half of the raid dps charts - fact!
Havoc is, if not the top, then very close to being top in burst AoE dmg - fact!
Havoc is a must-have in every raid group - fact!
Havoc is the most represented and wanted spec for M+ - fact!
Havoc has really good utilities for evading mechanics and decent utilities overall- fact!
Havoc has one of the best mobility for fast-switching between different priority targets multiple times - fact!
Of almost all melees Havoc (together with WW monks) will most likely have the most uptime on targets when heavy movement is involved - fact!
It’s clear you want DHs to be the best because you only like to play fotm, and it isn’t. But regardless of that DHs are in a very good spot as far as PvE is concerned.
No it shouldn’t, it doesnt work that way. But it’s brilliant in AoE dmg and in M+ in general. So ye Havoc is really good for PvE.
Man, no matter how many arguments we throw at you. You must always be right. You started discussion but this thread has made it to the phase where you only defend your point of view and cannot accept the other ones. It is useless to argue with you. You will never admit that you might be wrong, or others are right.
I don’t know why you even started this thread with this mindset. Nobody is able to change your mind or help you in any way.
OP doesn’t seek help or his mind changed. He’s just stating that DHs are not the best in raiding and they really really want them to be. That’s all.
Because it’s not about points of view or opinions, it’s about facts.
DH has ONE spec that’s viable ( most classes have 2 specs or even 3 ) and that one is AVERAGE, which is REALLY BAD. If I am forced to play one spec then it should be TOP TIER.
Okay? Then don’t.
Sure. Hopefully devs see it and realise Havoc needs some tinkering.
Let me just stop your wall of text right there.
DH is the 6th best class for DPS and worst class for tanking. There. End of story.
There’s nothing we shine at in the current raid tier. And that’s a problem.
lol. Now you’re just being stupid.
DH was the first char I rolled when I made my account. Do you think I spent weeks trying to see which was fotm? And it was Legion ending, no one knew what was fotm.
You disagree with good? Because it’s like middle of the pack it’s not good? I disagree with your disagreement. Wow you really do like to reply to everyone to put your opinion across.
Middle of the pack means it’s not good by definition. Do you want a dictionary?
Riiiiight. So even though the middle isn’t really that far off the top, you think that’s bad?
I mean, if you have a class with 1 viable spec where most have 2/3, and that one spec is average, yes, it’s pretty bad.
It doesn’t work like that. Havoc is by no means bad, you could argue it’s not great in PVP at the moment and I’d agree, but saying it’s bad for PVE is just plain wrong.
Says who?
Having half your specs be trash and the other average is unacceptable.
Because other specs are trash for a class, doesn’t make the other one trash as well. How would that even work? Veng is trash, so havoc is trash, is that what you’re trying to say? It’s not the best position to be in, but it doesn’t mean the class is bad.
…no.
I’m saying that if we only have 1 spec we can play it should be great, not average.
So you think that only like the top few classes in a raiding situation are good and everything else is either average or bad ? Regardless of how they perform in Mythic+ ?
Look at hunters: survival is garbag in m+ 2nd worst in current raid tier (why take melee hunt when rogue/DH are kings). MM is mid pack in current raid tier and lower half in M+. BM is rock bottom in raid tier and middle of the pack for m+.
Going by your logic all hunter classes need significant buffs so they are top of the pack in raid tier and m+ as all current specs are mediocre or worst