AOE limit should be raised to 10

Honestly looking at the upcoming dungeons many packs are more than 5 so even without multipulls its going to be a pain

If you watched the streams ect. that explains why theyā€™ve done this change you might know.

They dont like that the answer to every problem presented is always, pull bigger.

And time will tell if itā€™s gonna be as bad as you think, remember, even in BFA we have classes capped at 5 targets. Fury warrior is in essence capped at 5 targets, and they still do quite decent. Yes, dragonā€™s roar and whirlwind hit more, but the overall damage they add, is so small it hardly matters in the scheme of things.

1 Like

If i recall correctly, they said they want to close the gap between classes who are significantly better at AoE vs. those who donā€™t have it. In a pull of 10 mobs, outlaw rogue can cleave on all of them but pressing one button at the start of the fight and then just doing his regular rotation, but a fury warrior would only be hitting 5 targets.

Iā€™m not saying itā€™s the right decision to aoe cap ā€œeverythingā€, this just what I believe their reasoning is. Thereā€™s still going to be classes that can hit everything, or more than other classes. Even 8 is sginificantly better than 5. This will just limit the M+ meta more to those classes unless both the dungeon desing and class design are done correctly.

Yeh I know what they saidā€¦
I meant I donā€™t see the logic in that decision.

They could achieve the same results through mob mechanics to make it impossible to pull half the dungeon at the same time.
Mobs that heal, stun, CC, buff, debuff etc. Making it so that you have to use CC, dispells and prioritize which mobs to kill first. Not just blindly spam AoE.
If you pull half the room the mobs would be too powerful and you would wipe.
That design philosophy would affect only dungeons made now and going forward, not negatively impact things made before.

That would be more fun as well as it would force you to think.
Their solution will be the same mindless tactics as before, just on a smaller scale.

Isnā€™t this already the case for 95%+ of the dungeons?

Mobs that require priority kills?

Thereā€™s a few exceptions, but in most cases theyā€™re so weak their heals/buffs/debuffs etc can be safely ignored and just included in the mass AoE.

My suggestion is to make these trash pulls fewer and far more powerful.
Forcing you to think between the boss pulls as well.
Instead of just making it the same mindless tactics on a smaller scale.

1 Like

From my point of view like ā€˜everyā€™ pack has the need of cc/interrupts/stuns :thinking: There are some exceptions that can be just mindlessly aoeā€™ed without it.

Just when youā€™re running a key thatā€™s high enough. And that just proves my point that the mobs are too weak to begin with.

The only times Iā€™ve used my sap in the last few years is the few times Iā€™ve run M+ keys.
Iā€™ve never had to do it in normal, heroic or mythic dungeons.

What you are basically saying is that your groups are muscle-ing through dungeons while getting boosted by the healer. It can be healed so it is fine. Allthough when you look at higher keys, there is more coordination on the stuns and interrupts, and the healer is actually doing lower hps than on a +5.

And that would be impossible if the mobs were stronger to begin with. If the entire dungeon was designed with mobs that worked much more closely together.
Fewer, but much stronger. Priority kills on every pull, CC when possible, stun when possible, dispell when possible etc etc.

That way you canā€™t pull the entire room at once, because the mobs would be too strong.
Theyā€™d heal each other, buff each other, debuff you, stun you etc all the time as you pulled too many.
Instead of just hardcapping AoE at 5, making it the same exact tactics that have been used so far, just at a smaller scale. Making it, in my opinion, boring and slow. Instead of interesting and slow.

Remember, Mythic+ is a part of this game, not all of it.

Isnā€™t this the issue that people are just doing content that they overgear? I mean, when we started in Bfa we wiped gazilion times on mythic normals. Low ilvl too, but that is what scaling is doing. Like every trashpack is dangerous.

I am now doing +20ā€™s and the only way to get higher is pulling more and having better CC coordination. It IS already challenging.

And there you have it. Dungeons will just take longer to finish. This means more time spent in game.

Metrics.

1 Like

To an extent, but when we wiped on normal mythics it wasnā€™t because of the tactics. Most mobs didnā€™t do anything special.
Thereā€™s a few healers here or there we had to interrupt, like the Tidesage Spiritualists with their Mending Rapids, but not enough of them.
We wiped because the entire team was barely above the required itemlevel.

They were never difficult tactically speaking.

Mythic+ isnā€™t the entire point of this game. Iā€™d like to see changes to the dungeon design, not just hardcapping AoE at 5 and patting oneā€™s own shoulder calling it a good job.
I hate Mythic+* so I donā€™t do it much.

*The reason I hate Mythic+ isnā€™t because of the dungeons, but the people doing them.
Iā€™ve played this game since 2005 and have never experienced as much toxicity and met as many douchebags as when Iā€™ve done Mythic+.
That timer does things to peopleā€™s heads Iā€™m sure.

Have to respond on that last thing; Find a guild, community, whatever group. Really. It is a lot of fun in there without toxicity.

1 Like

I am very happy with these changes. Maybe dot classes will be in meta again. At the moment trashpacks are 50% after i dot them, because dh/rogue/mage/hunter are already 400k on dpsmeter. Im sick and tired of gameplay like this, where sometimes pulls are so big i am not even able to dot all the stuff. Its a good change for me. Hopefully if they remove aoe cap, they will nerf aoe to the ground :wink:

Except that not all tank are equally designed.
No matter what i do, i still have nothing comparable to thunderclapping everything to death without any cap.
So no, unless everyone have no cap, everyone should have a aoe cap.

Plus itā€™s a nice change from the pull everything meta of bfa.

Vindictive attitudes like that help no oneā€¦ Yourself included.

Itā€™s better to ask for a tuning of AoE to not make it overpowered instead of asking for having it rendered useless.
One example would be a set amount of damage that is divided among targets.
Another is changing some AoE to hit a set number of targets. (Not hardcapping all of them)
A third is designing the dungeons with fewer but much more powerful trash mobs, that employ tactics that make CC, stuns and priority kills necessary from the start.

My class for example. Rogue.
It makes sense that I wouldnā€™t be able to throw an infinite number of daggers at once.
So capping it at 10 for example, makes sense.
For a mage casting Blizzard, or throwing a damn meteor down in an area, itā€™s beyond silly that mobs will stand there and not get hit at all.

Not to mention tank aoe abilities are going to be a pain in the backside with a hardcap on aoe.
Say a Paladin tank uses Consecration, they got 10 enemies in total.
His consecration hits 5 of them, then another 5 at random later, then another 5 at random. 5 random each tick.
Maybe some of the enemies havenā€™t been hit at all.
Then the mage casts a Blizzard, hitting 5 at random, three of them having so far remained unhit by the Consecration.
These will turn and run to the mage, which the tank will have to individually pick up again.
Just annoying.

More of a tank issue than a dps issue

Couldā€™ve just made the enemies stronger and more punishing

1 Like

Do you actually remember the start of BFA, or do you rememner Legion?
I do, the start of BFA the forums was filled with posts about M+ being to hard, and how nearly every mob needed interrupts/stuns ect.

Tank threat meant you couldnā€™t pull the whole dungeon and tank just use one spell and then kite while not in real danger.

When going from Legion to BFA the mobs already got way harder, but the playerbase adapted. There is a reason why only something like 8% of all players get the +15 Meta achivement.

The problem is, the higher you go, and more cordinated your groups become, the more you can pull. The way you often see pulls now is that the tank does an insane pull, group slows/interrupt/CC on CD so it can be mostly kited around, tank only going in when he can survive and get some more agro.

Many dungeons even have mobs that canā€™t be tanked and just spank random players in an effort to stop us from doing insane pulls, guess what, the good players cordinated and did it anyway.

If you think this can be solved by more difficult mobs, please be more specific. We already have things needing interrupts and stuns in nearly every pull. Unless ofc you just out gear the content so you can ignore the mechanics.

Iā€™m pretty sure nearly everything if not everything you can think up, is already implemented in some dungeons, and the answer there, is still, pull bigger to defeat the challenge.

The way i see it, the only way to stop this is weaken the tools every class has, which we all know the playerbase as a whole will hate, or try to limit the aoe potential with for example target capping the aoe.

And as i said, Fury warrior is already as such target capped, and it works fine.

1 Like

Was I among those who complained?
Personally I like it when I have to use my CC, interrupts, stuns etc.
Itā€™s way more fun than tunnel visioning the dps and just slamming that rotation over and over.

So your solution is to fine-tune the game for 8% of the playerbase?

What about the remaining 92%?