AOE limit should be raised to 10

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

@Saeryn-auchindoun

What about the remaining 92%?

For the remaining 92% it is already too hard. And you want to make it even harder.

[Saeryn-auchindoun]

@Psjohly-argent-dawn

For the remaining 92% it is already too hard. And you want to make it even harder.

Yes… Because I think it’s better to make it more interesting than downright boring.
The exact same tactics as now (mass AoE) with smaller packs sounds extremely dull to me.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

Then i bounce your own question back

@Saeryn-auchindoun

So your solution is to fine-tune the game for 8% of the playerbase?

What about the remaining 92%?

[Ahsoka-zandalar-tribe]

the reason blizz gave is so that it is less viable to do massive pulls in instances and such. they saw people in island expeditions pulling the entire island and were like “noooooo people are having fun in a way we didnt intend!!! not allowed!!!”

[Saeryn-auchindoun]

@Psjohly-argent-dawn

Then i bounce your own question back

They can learn…

There’s a lot of things I didn’t like about vanilla back in the day, but the dungeons were more fun. CC was used all the time for example.
Sure, that was often for reasons related to tank and holding aggro on so many at the same time or the healers ooming if you pulled too many.
But even if the reasons are different, it’s more fun when you have to use the tools at your disposal.

Because I refuse to believe that 92% of the playerbase are literally too dumb to know how to use CC, stuns and interrupts.
They’ve just been spoiled because Blizz made spamming AoE the solution to every single problem.
Hardcapping AoE at 5 won’t make anything more fun.
And I imagine most people play the game for fun, not for competitive m+ tournaments.

[Athulua-silvermoon]

at least disable this in old content, i like to round up all the trash and wreck it in 1 gcd instead of spending time killing trivial mobs that are there to just block way forward.

as for the dungeons, i wish older design of hard dungeons would come back. Where you need to cc mobs instead of just aoeing everything down. The enemy forces % bar should be a little more lenient, permitting more skips and CC’s.

[Malikypewpew-kazzak]

@Saeryn-auchindoun

Was I among those who complained?
Personally I like it when I have to use my CC, interrupts, stuns etc.
It’s way more fun than tunnel visioning the dps and just slamming that rotation over and over.

So you like current M+ where you have to CC and interrupt on CD in pretty much every single dungeon.
Target cap will make this even more needed since big pulls (Which are still gonna be a thing) are gonna live longer, so you need to be even more cordinated with CC’s.

I fail to see your problem then?

@Saeryn-auchindoun

So your solution is to fine-tune the game for 8% of the playerbase?

What about the remaining 92%?

@Saeryn-auchindoun

Because I refuse to believe that 92% of the playerbase are literally too dumb to know how to use CC, stuns and interrupts.
They’ve just been spoiled because Blizz made spamming AoE the solution to every single problem.
Hardcapping AoE at 5 won’t make anything more fun.
And I imagine most people play the game for fun, not for competitive m+ tournaments.

So a change that will mostly affect the top end players, let’s be fair, most pugs can’t handle pulling 15-20 mobs. That means this is a change that harms the remaing 92% who mostly pull 3-5 mobs anyway?

Surely, someone who thinks he’s among the top 8% can see the many ways this target cap doesn’t limit you in any way? While it’s true that your outlaw rogue can only hit 5 targets with blade flurry, you dont have any limit on where or how many ruptures you have up.

The AoE cap only limits how many targets a single cast can hit at ones, not how much you can spread said damage around. It will become harder to do the big pulls because you need to spread your damage, you need to coordinate more. For the casual player, this won’t matter at all outside maybe farming old content for transmogs or w/e

As said before, Fury warrior already does this with their bloodthirst bleed and it works fine, is it the best spec right now, no, but it’s also not the worst. But you seem to keep ignoring this.

[Hansmage-silvermoon (Hansmage)]

I’d rather see aggro “issues” coming back (not like in classic but more like wotlk) than seeing limited aoe. Make mobs not as kite friendly and your tank will be forced to do something about using a CD while taking the damage from the mobs or simply pull fewer. Then they will have to rethink how many mobs to pull etc.

[Malikypewpew-kazzak]

Goes to show you dont really play with really good DPS, because agro is very much an issue right now, especially for fire mages.

Even the top teams on twitch need people to have invis/FD/Vanish ect for some boss fights so they can drop agro because tanks dont have a chance to hold agro

[Vagash-outland]

The AoE cap is just there to make dungeons slower and last longer thus making you play longer so greedctivision can have you subscribed for longer and make more gold.

That’s litteraly the only reason why they are doing this. And the worst part is they know there will always be part of the playerbase that will find a way to defend their decisions no matter how stupid it is.

[Hansmage-silvermoon (Hansmage)]

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

Goes to show you dont really play

That part is true. This clown show of a patch is nothing I’d ever want to play. Just thinking how it was in previous patches, even during bad affixes for tanks, they could hold aggro.

[Korsbaek-draenor]

@Saeryn-auchindoun

I agree…

And I argue that making that necessary again, is the right solution. Make the mobs more dangerous, and fighting together.
Healer mobs, CC mobs, buffing mobs, debuffing mobs.
Force the players to prioritize targets, use CC and dispells etc, and through that limiting the number of the trash pulls they can take at once. Because they can’t handle all of them simultaneously.

Not hard capping AoE. It’ll be the same mindless trash pulls, except it will take longer.

I haven’t sapped a mob in years in dungeons, because it isn’t necessary.

remember the start of cata?

@Saeryn-auchindoun

It’s better to ask for a tuning of AoE to not make it overpowered instead of asking for having it rendered useless.
One example would be a set amount of damage that is divided among targets.

the divided would do one of 2 things, 1 make it slow down killing trash/mobs over x or 2 make aoe useless as it is lower then just dotting up and dealing single target damage.

@Saeryn-auchindoun

A third is designing the dungeons with fewer but much more powerful trash mobs, that employ tactics that make CC, stuns and priority kills necessary from the start.

see above they tried in cata it did not work.

@Ahsoka-zandalar-tribe

“noooooo people are having fun in a way we didnt intend!!! not allowed!!!”

I dont see that as fun tho, it is just tidiose nothing more

[Hellzia-ravencrest (Hellzia)]

Honestly some people here worry way too much about this change without having any factual data. Let’s see how it plays out first, shall we?

It’s just a change, adapt or get left behind… easy as that.

[Ahsoka-zandalar-tribe]

for me at least, doing one big fast paced pull of 10 mobs is more fun and satisfying than doing two pulls of five mob. i didnt mean that island expeditions are anywhere close to “fun”.

[Kanai-argent-dawn]

I doubt they will tho.

[Saeryn-auchindoun]

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

So you like current M+ where you have to CC and interrupt on CD in pretty much every single dungeon.
Target cap will make this even more needed since big pulls (Which are still gonna be a thing) are gonna live longer, so you need to be even more cordinated with CC’s.

I fail to see your problem then?

That’s where I think you’re wrong… Since mass-pulling will be useless, I think they’ll just pull one group. Spame AoE it down, pull another, spame AoE it down. Etc.

But you’re misunderstanding me anyway, I’d like to see a change in dungeon design where mass pulls aren’t a viable strategy.
Through fewer, stronger mobs with more abilities.
Say you pull a group, and that group has a healer, buffer, debuffer etc. Even tank mobs can work. They use a taunt, and if you hit any other mob while under the effect of the taunt your dmg is reduced.
Similar to how tanks work in PvP in SWTOR.

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

That means this is a change that harms the remaing 92% who mostly pull 3-5 mobs anyway?

Don’t lift yourself up quite that high over the “masses”.

Most pugs can handle more than 3-5 mobs at the same time, unless we’re talking the highest of keys.

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

Surely, someone who thinks he’s among the top 8%

Where did I say I was among the top 8%?

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

you dont have any limit on where or how many ruptures you have up.

It’s limited through the energy pool.

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

The AoE cap only limits how many targets a single cast can hit at ones

And I am opposed to this as I think it’s fixing a problem in the wrong end.

Then I’d rather see fixes either to the AoE itself, through damage reduction or it having a set amount of damage that it divides up among the enemies.
Not seeing a fire mage drop a meteor on top of a pack of mobs and only 5 of them feeling it.

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

For the casual player, this won’t matter at all outside maybe farming old content for transmogs or w/e

You think the brain of a casual player melts if they pull more than 5 mobs or something?

Besides it’s annoying enough if you go to transmog farm and have to kill 6000 low level mobs 1 by 1.

@Malikypewpew-kazzak

As said before, Fury warrior already does this with their bloodthirst bleed and it works fine, is it the best spec right now, no, but it’s also not the worst. But you seem to keep ignoring this.

And all specs must be completely identical?
They can’t have different strengths?

You say I ignore your arguments, I say the same to you.

But enough, we won’t agree, that much is clear.
You have your opinion, you have yours. And I’m sure neither of us feel like repeating the same thing the rest of the night.

@Korsbaek-draenor

remember the start of cata?

I played during Cata yes.

@Korsbaek-draenor

the divided would do one of 2 things, 1 make it slow down killing trash/mobs over x or 2 make aoe useless as it is lower then just dotting up and dealing single target damage.

That comes down to tuning.
It could be decent or bad, depending on how much the numbers are tweaked one way or the other.

[Elahri-silvermoon]

@Psjohly-argent-dawn

I mean, when we started in Bfa we wiped gazilion times on mythic normals

… What.

No.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

I dont remember you were in my group

[Elahri-silvermoon]

If you wiped a gazillion times in normal mythics I question your skill level. No matter what you have achieved in mythic plus. Just like that DK whining about timewalking being too hard when it’s faceroll. The normal mythics were faceroll even on launch. We couldn’t even queue heroics when we did our first one due to lack of ilvl but it was still faceroll.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

I never said i was good But we pulled ticks, we killed ticks, ticks deathrattled us It was an awesome first week. But consider me the worst of the worst of the worst players. Because that is exactly what i am. Please no expectations.