i already know what to play no mistakes 
Why not it would solve the Reputation nightmare across alts.
It’s not the same at all for example 10.0 Venthrye are your BiS so you grind them out then 10.1 comes along and Necrolords are your BiS but then for 10.2 Necro is nerfed and Venthryr is buffed making it BiS again which even according to Blizz is not going to be a pleasant regrind.
And let’s face it the general community expects a PuG to be running at BiS or they get excluded.
Your assumption is wrong thinking that if you play warrior suddenly every group insta invite you. While reality is that there probably was tank in queue with higher rio. Rio is much much more important for pug than your class.
I think their point in this (taking your patch examples)
Say you play a MM Hunter
10.0 MM Hunters are awesome, highly reced in dungeons, top of pile.
10.1 MM Hunters get nerfs, they are now mid at best and no longer the insta-invite they were last patch.
10.2 MM Hunters are bit better, but not at the top, a few classes are prioed over you.
When faced with this do you:
a) Deal with it. You’ll do the bets you can on the class you are, even if it’s not the optimal pick currently.
b) reroll a new class every time the one you pref playing isn’t top-end meta
Most players would pick a), because there is nothing wrong with doing the best you can with what you have, as opposed to lamenting how good you could be with the stuff you “could have otherwise”. A few hardcore people will choose b) however.
A similar principle could be argued here, do you simply deal with what you’ve picked and do the best you can with it, or do you lament over how you “could be doing better if hypothetically I picked differently”, which doesn’t make sense if you don’t do similar when it comes to your class - because on the one hand you would be accepting “choices matter” and you deal with the limitations, yet on the other you are fretting about exactly the same kind of principle.
Yes, people still in groupfinder will be all “rogue pref” or “mage pref”, but it is what it is, you don’t reroll a rogue in response to such groups do you?
Either there will be enough players to duel the “LF kyrian” type demands, and it will be done, or there won’t, and it will become clear it’s not a sensible way to make groups and effectively run them (without waiting for hours) when it comes to PUGing and so the concept of metaing covs for dungeons will ease up. It depends entirely upon how much access there is to each covenant amongst the playerbase.
If nobody is picking Kyrian say, then you’ll see groups stop demanding it for PUGs, because you’ll be waiting forever. So people can insist what they like, but whether it’s an effective strategy remains to be seen and we cna’t know for sure without the live playerbase.
RIO demands are different, everyone can get RIO, but not everyone can be any covenant, which will have an effect on the demands of the system. People will not hardline demand certain covenants if the result is it takes them 2 hours to form a PUG group- it simply will not happen.
Higher pushers where this kind of min-max is “needed” will be the domain of dedicated groups that run a reliable comp (guilds/comms) and I suspect the higher key climbs will massively slow down in PUGland because of this, because it will simply become too ineffective in terms of time spent trying to craft a “BIS PuG group” - you’ll be better off trying to build a reliable team.
I don’t queue for keys above my lvl or cutting edge keys, i always try +1 on each dungeon i’ve already done, and i don’t queue on group of people with 5k rio average because i know it won’t work, they play at another level.
Yet i get bounced tons of time simply because i’m a paladin and not a war or a monk, from groups that prefer to wait hrs (i see them stuck in queue) instead of going outside the meta, even group where the leader is on par or below my rio.
Plus according to several 3d in the forum, there is a noticeable lack of tanks in the queue. Or more realistically, there is just a lack of meta tank, because there are only so many player that can play prot war or brew monk.
So no, mine is not a wrong assumption, is the reality. People want meta because they want the easy way that will cover up other shortcomings, like playing very poorly.
Creating even more meta combination for every dungeon is only going to make this problem worse.
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i’m so tired of all these new systems every expansions.
artifacts, azerite, soulbinds w/e.
why reinvent the wheel every expansion? there was nothing wrong with tier sets and guaranteed sockets on gear.
meh
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Like I said. Your assumption is wrong thinking that everyone would suddenly welcome you with open arms.
And no you are wrong. There are a lot of other people playing tanks so you have no clue if there are no higher rio tanks in queue.
I played season 2 and 3 as demo lock, made it up to 21 keys.
Same for classes. Yet you dont see vast migration towards most op class in the game.
You play horde. For ali its completly different story.
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Covenants will be strong season 1, as you’re lacking player power and they’re a big boost. As we move further into the xpac, the ability itself will becomes less and less relevant due to power scaling on your character so I think in that aspect it will be fine.
However I feel the buffs should be removed in M+ as it only gatekeeps the people you’re going to invite to your team and you certainly want one person of the respective covenant in your party. Either make it accessible regardless of covenant to all teams or just remove them. M+ is already gatekeeped enough.
This is the image, by the way. Posting since I did not see it shown so far.
4 Likes
but if you are putting together a group and you need someone, are you going to pick someone who has a bad covenant and will therefore do less damage/healing, or are you going to pick someone that has optimal set up in order to make the most and get the most damage out and what not?
the main problem that i have with it is that i want to have the abilitiy to use them all, even if its just to have something new to play with in torghast, i just dont like the game telling me im not allowed to play the way i want to, which is the big issue for a lot of people, hence this whole pulltheripcord thing,
why shouldnt i be able to play with an AoE ability in dungeons and a ST one in raids, they let us swap talents which are essentially the exact same thing, the covenants should just be a cosmetic/story based choice, because as a warlock i would like to go venthyr and see their story and use them mogs, but im going to have to be necrolord because decimating bolt is too powerful
If yoy make those buffs acessible so everybody can have them regardless of anything than yes you can also just remove them. Becouse if you have buff what can acess anyone you have to balance around that buff which means it literaly just inflates numbers and nothing els.
Buffs matter only if they are restricted to certain classes/covenants. Otherwise there is no ppint to them.
Becouse its boring and there is no identity in it? Everybody will just follow meta so they can be optimal in all situations = no player identity and every single class will walk around with exact same skills just like they do with talents.
This is wrong, because meta is just a generalization of what is best.
Just like there are sim traps, it’s about overall power.
Not all players go for what’s written on Icyveins 100% of the time.
That’s why a player has to actually test the setup to see if it works best in X situation.
With covenants you can’t test it properly.
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Min Maxer’s when forming Raids just want to play on Easy mode, lets be fair, we should never acknowledge that they are looking for -skill-, just for stats.
Which is poor form really, and makes them look like amateurs.
You play for the game, you don’t let the game play you.
Also,
Are you telling me I am a changeling child and am secretly asian or PoC as whilst I am so pale bottles of milk nudge each other and go “Dayumn, check out that pasty dude!” I still think that song is one of the most overplayed pieces of junk ever! 
I highly doubt anyone will do any serious M+ pushing without having a player that allows the buff present, so dungeons are already being balanced around it. So might as well just remove the restriction and allow them for everyone.
You dont have to balance around it on 100%. You can take into account 50% power of that buff and tune dungeon around 50%. So groups what have right covenant will have advatange and groups who dont will be in disadvatage but dungeon will stay doable for groups without buff. And before you say its unfair for groups without buff keep in mind that wow is rpg game not compettive esport. Rpgs are never fair and shouldnt be fair. You should have advantages and disadvatages in certain situations.
But most people will take covenant for buff which is great becouse this way you can get invited into groups even when your covenant wont be meta for your class/spec.
Yes for 1/4th of the dungeons. For the other 3/4 you are undesireable.
maybe its boring for you, but there are a lot of people that will out right dislike or find it incredibly boring feeling like they could be a lot better in certain situations but are being forced into making an arbitrary decision for the sake of making thing difficult for them.
its not like the story of SL even adds anything to this, regardless of which covenant you pick you are still friendly with everyone, you are still their champion, and you are still sent to do the exact same callings and assist them with everyone like everyone else is, the whole argument of it being an important decision and impacting gameplay is just bull, because it realistically makes absolutely no difference other than forcing people to identify with a group they would rather not identify with.
take the example i gave in my previous comment, i would love to go venthyr i like their transmogs, i like the little headstone back thing, and i like the characters that are involved with them and i have seen bits and peices of story that looks very interesting, but im not going to be able to pick and identify with the one i want to because necrolord is too strong and i have to pick necrolord to be useful
please explain why this is still the better choice and allows people to make a choice?