To be fair, +14 is pretty much a walkthrough for groups with s1 max gear or higher.
The amount doesn’t matter. It’s more about how important the interrupts are. The only critical interrupt in BH is the fear cast, and that’s infrequent, especially if you take care to only pull one fear mob at a time. The adepts in VP cast a big heal frequently, the executors (I think) cast a buff on the group, and in a few packs towards the end there are multiple of those casters. There are also casters in earlier packs that are deadly if more than one or two casts go through.
It’s the last packs in FH, after the bridge, that do the most damage. The first 3 packs pulled together are ‘tank and spank’ with lust. The only difficult pack is the one that triggers the first boss, but the tank has the whole boss area available to kite.
Yeah we learned the hard way in freehold that these packs are changed. Sea spout is not stunnable anymore and painfull motivation is doing a fraction of damage of what it did in bfa Seems you want to pull these packs after the bridge seperately.
Don’t nail me on the name but it’s most likely Bracken Warscourge that has caused most groups I was in a lost key on the way to first boss. It should be the one with a red flag on its back casting fear and doing an aoe blade dance (Ragestorm?) that needs to be soothed. Some pulls have two of them and they’re part of some pats, too. And it usually becomes a problem when tanks try to “sneak” around packs standing too close.
Talking about pat, there’s one before last boss also that, if not killed, may very well be pulled into the fight if too close.
Another aspect that makes Vortex easier in my opinion. There aren’t many optional routes so you way easier to get a routine.
I seriously had the least group issues with Vortex and Neltharion’s Lair so far. Even managed Freehold on a 15. But Brackenhide broke the most keys in pugs yet.
I’d disagree on that. Seen up to 3 wipes on the way to first boss in FH. Same amount after second boss. It might be that people, who haven’t played that dungeon in BfA still need to get used to. But overall, highest death rates I’ve counted out of all dungeons in the current M+ pool go to FH, BH and Underrot. Would’ve expected Neltharus to be more of an issue there.
To me the opposite. Still searching how to live the trash on vortex on a +14 before the 3rd boss. It is that we ducked up the freehold last trash after the bridge or we timed it on 16. Brackenhide was even on a science run, and our 2nd run in total in that dungeon, with some deaths a timed key on +15.
Not my issue really. I just soothe them so others don’t die. I hate stacking in melee. x) But then again, walk too far and pull pat. And I’ve also seen a couple of tanks die from that aoe, so don’t stand in melee might not particularly help them. x)
Bracken warscourge. Has a bladestorm people need to move from and a 4 second AoE fear on a 3 second cast. As far as I can see my route has 4 of them. 3 before the 1st boss and 1 after the 3rd boss, they’re also never double pulled.
I think the distinction people are trying to make here is your issue is that a cast that CCs people is going off, that means a wipe on almost every key level because its going to pull a tonne of mobs. At the level you’re playing the far more frequent and difficult to handle mob mechanics in other keys aren’t doing enough to wipe you or cause significant problems.
On a 20 in VP there’s multiple pulls with 6-8 mobs in them that all have a cast that if it goes off you just die. Bracken’s danger doesn’t scale anywhere near that much outside of that one fear cast which, as I’ve pointed out, is already deadly in a 14.
Something I’ve definitely noticed this season while pugging in the 16-20 range is there seems to be a lot of either new tank players or people just aren’t familiar at all with how trash in these dungeons work. A lot of packs require you to pop defensives AS you are pulling and not after you are already taking damage, which leads to these things happening.
No flame to tanks ofc, love them all, but it’s happened quite frequently to me that tanks walk into dangerous trash packs with 0 mitigation up and then die 80-0 when 4-5 mobs slap them all at once.
I think it’s probably just people being unfamiliar with the dungeons and not knowing how hard things hit yet.
It is like 5 yards sidestepping. And yes, it will help tanks too to do that. Not saying you should not soothe, of course But what is actually the problem with them?
Yes that was also a suggestion we had. 2 key runs is not enough yet to find the optimal way to do it We did already tried to make the warlock gateway skip work, like in bfa. But we assume it is fixed since we couldnt find the right spot.
One group just managed to do so just yesterday, though?
But then again most people aren’t even doing 20s yet. So the +14 to +16 experience goes for the vast majority. And a comment like that:
Tells me that someone clearly doesn’t know what the experience on said M+ levels is. The average experience I dare saying. I can tell you exactly which dungeons I had to run repeatedly and how often in order to time it. Vortex wasn’t one of them. I had one not in time for that dungeon and that was on day one of the new season. Meanwhile I went for my fourth try on BH this week on +13 / +14, still not on time. And many group members had the same experience, so.
The problem isn’t a single Bracken Warscourge, but the trash dynamics / trash location around them. You will always have a higher risk of wipes and unforseen pulls when trash packs stand very close to each other and pats in between. Never had another experience about that.
And you can be certain that one of those unintended pulls will happen in many pugs, so you will be dealing with the double amount of required interrupts in many runs. Plus you not only have the fear / aoe in BH but also lots of diseases to dispell, which will especially wipe groups with low gear / stamina real quick. I always love when a few high M+ players try to set the standards for the broad majority but my experience tells me different here.
I hope you’re ready to interrupt, then. If I’m tanking, I’ll have my interrupt ready for when I expect the fear cast. Seeing as I never know whether pugs will soothe or not, I can’t plan for it.
Well, i am not on KSM yet. And when i believe raiderio cutoffs 25% already has it. So not sure where this is coming from. We literally have trouble on +14 vortex (what this topic is about).
I was speaking for myself, the only real place you can double pull them without doing something VERY stupid is by going left after the first boss which is, again, absolutely something you should never do.
I don’t care what the average player experience is, you said there is more to kick / deal with in brackenhide than VP and have since walked it back to one mob with a 3 second cast that appears 3-4 times in the entire key.
Interesting. I’ll have to go in there on my lock and check for myself. Being able to lock gate is certainly preferable to making sure everyone has invis pots.
EDIT: It’s possible to gate from the bridge up to edge of the hill where the 3 cannons are (right by the cannon on the left), but it might be too close to the 2 mobs at the end of the bridge. I’ll have to try it in a key where they have a normal aggro range.
Eh maybe it’s a joke on Prot Pala and Druid, can’t tell ‘cause I don’t play them but it’s definitely not a walk in the park as Blood DK.
With that out of the way, I agree that depends how you pull them and the hardest packs are the ones I think you listed if I understood correctly, aka the first pack when you land on the platform and then one down the stairs.
I want to say that yesterday I had to solo most part of the last pack with the blackpeadal Tec because the healer died two times and so DPS in a 18.
Though if a tank gets oneshot on pull then that’s a skill issue or a really high key.
I know you can’t. A lot of people apparently still have to find out that they have interrupt in general. Also feel like there are a bunch of new mages, who don’t know how to buff int yet…
Wasn’t aimed at you directly. But as some one already said before, the tank issue on the last trash packs in Vortex on +14 might really have to do with what class is tanking. That and either pyramids not being played or gear being a bit too low.
There is more to deal with for me. Solar Beam interrupt is easy to apply to a whole pack with spellcasters. Whereas Soothe is not. Nor is Remove Corruption. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to deal with toxins in Vortex nor with too many enrages. And most casts in my case can easily be interruped by just throwing a beam. Not so in Brackenhide. I use two different interrupts and one cleanse if necessary, so yes, there IS more to deal with in my case.
It can be, but having mained DH tank, I can confirm that DH is very vulnerable on pull if meta isn’t available. It isn’t possible to have meta for every pack because of the CD, so you rely on the few seconds you get with fel devastation for a lot of pulls. And those few seconds feel desperately short when mobs are smashing you.
Back in SL, I pulled around my cheat death (which gives full meta duration when it procs) and sometimes deliberately procced it for hard pulls.
Seems you want to pull these packs after the bridge seperately.