My PC is a pretty high end one. It is obviously the game. Now, since you do not mythic raid, your opinion is totally moot in this post regarding anything high end.
Nini, slep well! ^ _ ^
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Press a few times the keybind to swap through targets. It’s not that hard.
Or just click the party frame while in a party! That’s literally what they are for.
Why are you making said “minigame” into such a huge problem? Because you struggle with it? I don’t. It’s perfectly playable as it is right now.
Pffff… AHAHAHAHAHA!
What kind of take is that, Uda? “Oh, if you play Healer outside of group content that’s dumb. Healers should be in groups 24/7”… That’s what I read here.
I do it daily and it ain’t that hard. I started playing Healer in DF Season 2 regularly and play it exclusively every season ever since.
You are truly making it into a self-inflicted problem.
+10s are the only average content that matters.
Everything above that suffers from the god damn “war of attrition” problem Blizzard is keen on removing with disabling access for combat addons. That’s literally the point. The game got over the past 10-15 years so overtune in this constant addon-Blizzard-armsrace that the balancing and activity design got out of hand.
If people never had access to those combat addons to begin with, the situation you describe would have never become the norm where without addons you can’t manage a +20 key or higher as healer. That’s LITERALLY THE POINT why the addons get removed. So that the environment NORMALIZES AGAIN.
People got so used to optimizing the fun out of this game, the fun of trial, error and overcoming problems through playing together as it should be, that they can’t even see the effing abuse forced upon each other anymore.
To round this up with a quote from Raphael from Baldurs Gate 3:
“It’s the fatal flaw of mortalkind. Take away their free will, and they call you a tyrant. Allow them to indulge it, and they become tyrants”
And I will drop this argument now. I’m tired of playing Captain Obvious to explain the Obvious… 
I take it that this “you” is meant in the general sense and not specifically me. Because it would be quite bold of you to assume I blame any players in such content when things don’t go as planned.
Then literally no balance or design decision matters at all because you over gear +10s in under a week of a patch launch.
Don’t even need to give healers the ability to dispel. Heck you can miss damn near every interrupt and you’ll still be fine.
Designing the game for a level at which there is barely consequence just doesn’t make sense.
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Gear can’t compensate lack of skill fully in a patch. It only makes difficulty less harsh. If 5 fools with best gear play a +10 key they can still miserably fail if they keep playing like fools.
+10 is the pinnacle point of average player difficulty. Below is the “below average” and lower area. Above is the “above average” and beyond area of course.
A game catered to the best of the best will annihilate its general playerbase. Same as a super casual game will annihilate its best of the best playerbase.
It’s the sweet spot that matters. And regarding M+ that is the +10 - +12 area.
I mean, that’s bit of a nothing-burger, no?
The people who “don’t give a f about it” and only play their 10s or even less don’t need addons and especially no WeakAuras to begin with because the content is easy enough and nothing is threatening enough to track it.
So why even bother with it, when exactly those (the vast majority) players don’t even get affected by it?
Ironically it now forces those addons onto those players. You could assume that Blizzard might also tune dungeons accordingly.
On the other hand, they’ve discussed on multiple occasions how they tune especially mythic encounters with addons and WAs in mind because otherwise, they’d be too easy.
So in a way, Blizzard is doing this for issues that affect the top 1% of players, not the other 99%.
In higher content, they do.
In higher content, you have to.
It works on a surface level but it’s really horrible when it comes to the details. Like debuff tracking or buff tracking.
I mean, I’ve healed more difficult content with it. It’s workable but not “good” and really far from optimal.
It’s not but it does seem to be hard for a lot of people, even in +16s, lol.
That aside, kicking in itself isn’t hard. Kicking the correct spells at the right time in the correct order while not overlapping multiple kicks/CCs (coordination) is hard.
So you’re telling me that you’re able to track 4 different CDs of various lengths of mobs in a single pull while 100% performing your dps rotation (or healing/tanking) while also dodging swirleys on the ground?
You’re a god gamer.
I mean, if Blizzard simplifies future dungeons, it very well may be possible but as things stand now, that’s just not realisitc.
You entirely missed Udas point mate. He’s talking about targeted spells from a healer perspective. Having targeted spell displayed on nameplates isn’t as helpful to healers. Healers need that in their raid frames.
Yes, spell lock times get increased but that doesn’t change the fact that raid frames are missing the targeted spells feature.
Furthermore, don’t get too focused on the “spell” word here. There are random attacks/shots/charges/whatever that are NOT spells and go onto random targets that need to be tracked. Also there are spells which are not interruptable.
Gatekeeping per se isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Some content has to be gate kept. Not artificially ofc but you need to make people strive for something for them to improve.
Difficulty itself alread is “gatekeeping”.
Gatekeeping will always exist, unless you make all of the content so easy that even a 4yo could beat it.
Do you want that? I don’t because it would be incredibly boring.
People shouldn’t be able to get catapulted to higher diffculties just by using somthing that simplifies other aspects of the game (like OBR). They should play the content their skill level is actually adequate for and improve over time, rather than to just skip steps.
OBR is great for casual play and players with disabilities but it’s not something you should use to get into higher group content you actually shouldn’t do yet.
Yesn’t. Absolutely true for raids but not for M+. M+ is infinitely scaling content, so at some point a single random “shot” WILL kill you at 99% HP. At this point, you’ll need to be able to track who gets shot.
Yes, you might argue “but anything above +10 is an unnecessary gimmick”. No, it’s not. It’s content people enjoy playing and Blizzard also cares about (see MDI).
If they would not, they could as well just cap M+ at +10 because everything else is unnecessary.
If it was removed a lot of players would simply quit because they’d be bored to death with +10s. Obviously less than people who wouldn’t care at all, no doubt, but still.
Of course Blizzard won’t and can’t infinitely balance all M+ levels, since it’s infinite but they should provide players with proper tools to tackle it themselves.
They might with Midnight, who knows? Their own addon replacements might turn out really good but with Blizzards track record, I’m not too keen on it yet.
I agree with this. Entirely balancing a game around one of the two is bad but you have to provide proper options for both.
Is it really? Taking your below avg, avg and above avg example, that’s not really the case here.
According to raider io, only 38.8% of M+ participants (in Europe) have completed all +10s.
+12s just 19.7%.
So mathematically speaking you’re already above average after doing all 10s.
The average would roughly sit between +7s, with 51.9% of participants having completed them and +8s with 48.9%.
So the “average” M+ participant has completed a few 7s and a few 8s.
The average wow player however, even less.
And keep in mind that this statistic is tracking characters, not accounts.
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And thats what a majority of the people think is a problem
Blizzard obviously wants people to engage in m+ with all the incentives they have added to end of delves loot to get people to go into m+ but the conversion rate is so low because regardless of whether people will ever push to the heights that they need this, the fact that it is needed in the first place is what will make people not want to start, cause if they then do reach that level and dont want to use addons they know they’ll hit a wall, so they dont bother.
And sure, up until those high levels you’ll be fine with just skill, but people have always copied success, what the top 1% does, the bottom 99% tries to copy, just look at the view counts of all these billionaire morning routine ritual videos
Its an easy fix. Stop handing out free gear and make say gv give say…higher scaling gear for higher keys. +10s are a joke outside of say…1st season new expansion. WHy should these andies get the best gear rivalling mythic raid for doing practically nothing. It’s even worse because they come here and spout nonsense and they barely do content.
gear should scale to atleast +15
Except this adresses none of the issues I proposed and will solve a total of 0 of them, because none of this would change the perception that to succeed in m+ you need addons and if you dont want to do that why bother even starting with a 2?
My guess is people who are invested into m+ have a longer gearing track or atleast will stay subbed for longer, blizz wants people to do more m+ but m+ has become more and more niche with every expansion to the point where it likely will not see any growth from existing players
You’re trying to make sense of this from the players perspective, stop that, Blizzard is a company
of course it does. If they did content that required some effort they would see that addons are absolutely needed. They are forced into keys past 10-12 if they want the best gear,
Their lack of skill makes it doubly so
If you don’t execute the frost mage rotation at a reasonable level your DPS doesn’t drop to 70% or something, it drops to 20%, maybe even lower.
But yeah, sure, I’ve gone casual, and the reason I’ve gone casual is that I can play like 3 keys at most because my hand painfully cramps up. I cba with this trash. Give me a more relaxed, more orientation focused and less spammy game, and then I can absolutely assure you I can do better. I am destroying people on the meters at my own level, and my spec is the weakest in the game DPS-wise.
I can’t play this game for long stretches. I literally can’t, and I hate that fact.
We know it’s needed in the current game. That’s what sucks about it.
I don’t want the game easier, I want the game to be far more fun than it is. It’s boring to execute these bloody rotations. It’s repetitive and injures my hand.
Ok so you simply fail to comprehend what I am trying to say as this reply too doesnt touch on anything I said.
I am arguing why Blizzard is making these changes, not why some players are cheering it on, players cheering on means little, Blizzard goes by metric first, player feedback second.
whole other argument. That’s more accessibility then being lazy or bad. The game is too bloated and that is being addressed. (i have an irl with the same issue, are you not able to change your keybinds to compensate?)
i know why they claim to be doing it. Doesn’t mean they are correct or they are even telling the truth. The leading theory is that the game will be coming to console.
Companies like this lie. Unless you are 5 years old and don’t know any better you shouldn’t take things at face value or “trust me bro”
Considering they are a business, you should assume the reason is to make money regardless of what they say, in that sense I kind of agree with you that the reasons they give for it aren’t 100% truthfull, it may be an element of their decision, but its not at the core of their decision.
This is also why I am not parotting their given reasons for it.
Retention is important, the more people keep their sub active the more money they get, the fact that they tried to give a lot of things like a quest that lets you claim 15 gilded crests for any m+ difficulty level.
Microsoft didn’t buy them as somesort of benign angel looking at the struggles of the wow players, they bought wow because they assumed it’d be a good revenue income that could bankroll probably some xbox projects and now they probably want optimization in retention, which means taking the chisel to the pillars
I imagine someone looked at statistics and came to a conclusion that a lot of people either left the game or are staying away over its current complexity and if people stay away over something, that something is a reason why they’re not making as much money as they could, therefor they go after it.
The arguement wether the game needs it or not is a seperate one all together.
Because it forces the devs to constantly be at an arms race making the content harder than it needs to be because of the available information on the players side via addons.
To put it into a different example, think of an exam in school. Usually you have to learn and memorize the contents of the exams to pass it. Now imagine instead of learning the stuff, you just have to correctly look up the stuff in books during the exam to pass it.
The books in that analogy are the addons. And that’s why this is a problem. The original “exam” version created people able to natively react to situations. The book exam version creates people that can only react to what they see in that very moment.
If you need another example, think about Souls-like games. There you have to memorize and learn the boss fight behavior and attack patterns to avoid and dodge attacks.
Now, instead imagine during a boss fight a companion NPC would constantly tell you what to do and when to do it. Creates the same problem.
Oh, it’s much more than that. It’s also a fight against a portion of toxicity within WoW where people are constantly pressured into a “you have to compete” mentality because of addons and performance.
Alongside this, with damage meter and improved nameplates being part of the game in Midnight natively, everyone has access to such things, which in turn makes the lives of new players much easier since they don’t need to study half a diploma just to get good at the game through addon selection, set-up and all the procedure.
Again a symptom of an out-of-hand design arms race against addons.
You misread my words. I don’t count by default on them using their defensives. If they do, great. But I rather expect they don’t.
That’s highly subjective what means “good” or “optimal”. If it means to you “not even thinking a single fraction of a second whom to heal first”, then that’s not good design direction.
Which is exactly why this content is aimed at groups with voice chat communication for the optimal experience.
People can’t go into such content, brute forcing their solo-player mentality and expecting it to work flawlessly.
The average player doesn’t even regularly perform their DPS rotation 100% flawlessly so it won’t matter because all doing so means “defeating the boss faster”.
What does it matter in most content, especially raiding, if you are faster or slower besides mechanics? All that counts is that the boss dies and the team wins. It doesn’t matter how or who does it.
A good enough player can gain a sense of prediction for incoming damage simply due to the way the game is designed. HP usually drop in steps in a controlled fight and erratically in bursts if the fight is not controlled properly. What you need to take care of as healer is enabling your team to control the fight by keeping them alive. The damage usually then just comes in ebbs and flows like the tide of the sea.
Yeah. And simplifying the classes and fights will exactly serve that purpose.
For the good players, nothing changes. They have to press fewer stuff while also having to track fewer stuff.
For the bad players, everything changes. They have to press fewer stuff while also having to track fewer stuff. Making them better at the game in performance.
What’s more important here. Having a hard game? Or having a fun game?
And that’s exactly the dead-end problem with infinite scaling.
The enemies scale infinitely. We as players DO NOT. At some point, both lines on the graph hit the meeting point and spread apart after it. That’s called the “dead end point”. The point where the players can’t keep up anymore.
At some point, there is no further way forward. And the closer you are to that point on the spreadsheet the harsher the difficulty gets. What did you expect? A walk in the park?
People aren’t supposed to effectively reach that point even. Addons allowing them to do so should never have been the case to begin with.
I tell you something. When Midnight goes live, it might even be the case that a very big score difference from before the addon ban will not come to be anymore, creating a more equally footing for everyone at the 0,1% title and 2nd mount. Almost as if everyone is having the same starting conditions… 
They really shouldn’t. Players should have to suck it up at the road ends somewhere for them.
That’s current season data, right? If so, remember Legion Remix is currently out and many have other priorities atm than Mythic+ keys in TWW S3.
The way it is designed is that all those “attacks/shots/charges/whatever” go to a random player. No good player can predict random targets.
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You can literally have unavoidable overlaps, especially true in pugs and spells going off or w/e. He has 0 experience of it as his overlaps and spells going of in 10s means nothing, so that is the universal experience apparently
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ofc because nobody bothers. It’s the chicken or the egg problem. I WAS a 93% m+ mage in legion / bfa. Not the best but by far not the worst. Currently I wouldn’t even bother trying m+. It’s so unappealing. I can see in normal mythics that the ui is unclear and I have no idea what is going on. I can sense I “need” addons to fix that, especially if I wanna do high keys. and I won’t, either blizz fixes their game or 1 less person looking for a group. Which is what ultimately caused you to now group up with horde and alliance players.
Looks like they’re trying to fix part of it and i’m eager to see how it will work out. I will try it again but I will also admit the seasonal and pay2win nature of retail is unappealing to me for doing hard content.
My brother bukachu, ye i know him, he did hard keys back in the good ol days. If even you stopped it really is that bad. I noticed in m0 that the ui is not clear enough, I die without knowing why (prolly missed interrupt in a stack of mobs) and I don’t wanna bother with addons.
yee 100% this. compete on raw skill not who has the best addons and cpus to deal with all the addon cpu overhead.
Well he is not wrong, you cannot do high m+ with a life. Or you neglect your wife etc. I see hear that a lot from women in the game.
When we go to new content it is always unclear what is going on. I remember the first week of BFA doing the dungeons for the first time. We died left and right because we had no clue. And that was with a premade on voice, and DBM 
Maybe you, I did not, ofc I died sometimes but I peaked in bfa with 98% in m+ for frost mages. Mostly pugs as well. Ofc addons would’ve been nice back then as well, but I did not use them, none, just details. Today however, it’s just to much going on. I would REALLY like a addon to tell me which enemies need priority to interrupt etc. But I’d rather they fix the game and make it level field so I won’t use them as I never have.
I mean, i also did very well in M+ in bfa. But certainly not the first time we entered the dungeons. We were able to finish 2 mythic dungeons per evening of 4-5 hours playing. With a premade, with DBM and voice.