True but you do need them more than ever. There’s to much going one, without addons you cannot heal, have you tried? I have. I also healed to +9 in legion, not the best but i’m pretty bad at healing.
We have always healed with an addon that is showing partyframes. Of course we need an addon for those. The base partyframes almost have no pixels so you have no clue someone got damage, and are shown on the top left of your screen.
And we still use the same addons for that since legion. In my case ElvUI. Others use vudho or cell or healbot.
This is the default;
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/99/62/PartyFrames.png
That’s my point. You got a guy that is about to die. You are tab-targeting through your party to get to him. God forbid you do that too fast and miss him… He then dies. Then people come to the forum to complain that healing is “stressful”.
Dont suggest those things ! Suggest having a party frames. You see someone’s bar go down and you dont even need to look at that person. He could be behind you camera for all you care.
Click on his frame. 1 riptide. Done. Lives.
No wonder people whine healing is hard !!! It is NOT hard. It’s the easiest roll of all 3. IF you have a party frame.
Because if you play the mini-game you are 10x more performant. It’s like giving legendary weapons to DDs. You simply do MORE.
It’s an absurd conversation. Because it’s like telling new players: Sure you can do a dungeon in grey gear. Its perfectly possible !!! New players complain that its super hard…
YES. Do you see any tanks in PvP? May I remind you again what the main JOB of a healer is: Bar goes down. Do something to get it back up.
The fact that you CAN do things solo as a healer, dosent mean that you should do things solo as a healer. Like Dungeons. You CAN walk in there alone. But you wont get the results you expect.
What matters is that nobody wants to heal said +10s. Because when they walk in there with your “tab target” and 1234 macros with out a Party Frames people start to die like flies.
Instead, if they played with the proper tools they would literally get bored healing that meme-content.
SORRY. But Party Frames healing is a thing since 2004. BEFORE any addons were even made or thought of.
Can you imagine your “tab-targeting” shenanigans in a 40 man raid? Impossible to heal.
You ate the fake news like a true casual champ.
Let me explain my boy. The ONLY thing they are referring to are VERY specific Mythic Raid mechanics. And to make sure RTWF raiders dont abuse those with addons, they have done all this “addon pruning”.
But what is Blizzard doing exactly? They are dissabling combat addons. YES. But SIMULTANEOUSLY making the exact copy of them in-house. And you know what that means right?
It means that everyone playing between a +10 and +22 that used to play with addons, WILL play with addons. The inhouse addons.
And everyone playing +10 and below, that had the option of playing with OUT addons… well… now they will be FORCED to play with addons. Because they are inhouse.
It’s the other way arround. If ANYONE has to adapt to Midnight, it’s YOU. Not me.
And the healer party frames is just a matter of time. Blizzard already did Heliki, OBA, Nameplates, DBM, CD tracker… ect… The real question is if they will have it ready for S1 of Midnight or S2.
Well you did blame them:
Like I said. You play healer as it’s supposed to be played and you can make everyone in a +10 immortal. The damage is so low that there is no need to kick, CC, or do any mechanics other than “dont stand in the fire”. And not even that, because not even swirlies will 1-shot you in a +10.
And mind you. Party frames dont “play for you”. They just display the information in a clear way, so that the decision a healer has to do is simple: Press Healing Surge, Chain Heal or Riptide. That’s about it.
Most of the time the players are stacked and the mobs are too. Like to who is the mob turning to? And when not, does the healer need to look at all the mobs and understand where every player is, and then go to their party frame selecting the targetted player?
You are heavily trolling now.
In a pull with 10 to 20 mobs? Good luck.
Generally speaking yes but not always true. There are certain abilities that unfortunately still go through walls but that’s a niche issue.
In my experience it is that easy. I’m 714 ilvl and +10s are sleep inducing to me. That’s not an exaggeration. Almost nothing in a +10 1-shots you randomly if you’re ilvl 710+ with the exception of some boss mechanics, which, frankly speaking, should 1 shot you if you fail.
The Invigorating Healing Potion (yes, AH as you mentioned) heals for 50% HP. If players are not aware of their existence it’s due to the lack of information in game and their lack of willingness to do some research.
Also, don’t substitute a healer with healing potions in this example. My example was directer torwards your Souls-game example, where you have a lot of potions and are playing alone, not an M+.
If we’re takling about M+ the healer obviously just heals up the damage done which is not an issue in a +10. Thus “everything is a heal mechanic” mantra.
True, this is something the game should communicate more clearly so new players have an easier time.
As a general rule of thumb though - the bigger the mob, the more likely it is to be immune to CC.
No M+ was made for them. Delves were introduced for Solo players and can’t really be considered to be an endgame pillar imo.
5 minutes in an M+ is an eternity. In raids it also causes bosses to get closer to the enrage timer or cause healers to run oom.
I mean the entire point of having DPS is to do damage to mobs so they die quicker. If optimizing DPS wouldn’t make a difference we might as well just remove damage altogether, just let people play mechanics and make mobs lose HP by themselves over time.
Doesn’t sound too engaging though.
I think you should play that content before assuming that addons make any of that content easy. The content is incredibly hard. Addons make them “possible” not “easy”.
Their skill would be the same, their performance obviously would plummet because the game, as of now, has too many mechanics and things happening at the same time to humanly keep track of by eye-ing over the mob models. Also because Blizzard does a terrible job of telegraphing certain things.
You cannot know when, for example, Suleyman in Priory will cast his thunderclap. He does not cast it on CD. Often it gets delayed. There is also no indication of when he’s casting it, before he’s casting it and the cast takes about .5 seconds.
And that’s in a pull with exactly 11 mobs present, who also do their own things, like randomly shooting at targets.
I do, thus I play Darksouls, Cuphead and guess what, also WoW.
I might as well tell you to look for easy cozy games like Animal Crossing if you want to play easy games and not WoW. Or, you know, Classic is available too. That’s pretty easy AND WoW.
As a matter of fact, WoW tries to cater to both, hyper casuals and competitive gamers.
Initially it was not but it evolved to be both.
I doubt it. If that was the case, Blizzard would’ve just abandoned Mythic raiding and stopped at Heroic raids. Boom, done, casuals can now do the highest content. Still to hard? Abadon Heroic raids and just let people faceroll through Normal.
Blizzard does a lot to actively cater to everybody, thus LFR, NHC, HC, Mythic, M+ and even Delves exist.
To make your average casual gamer more successful in the game, an addon stip isn’t necessary. They could’ve just removed upper difficulties.
Why are they not doing this? Because the competitive players would leave.
That’s irrelevant in this context. Both Kira and I use addons thus we compete on equal footing in that sense. What holds me back from reaching his level is my own skill.
Fun fact, in preperation and out of curiosity I did do exactly this on my main. (Even ended up gaining rio).
I disabled pretty much any addon except for Plater and Big/LittleWigs.
Plater, to see aggro and spell CDs of mobs.
LittleWigs to see when a boss does which mechanic.
I could probably get rid of LittleWigs at this point too because I know boss timings (as a tank) by now. Though some bosses tankbusters, like Big Momma are a bit hard to react to because they cast really, really quickly.
Plater is a bit wonky in that sense because you can’t realistically track spell CDs of 8 different mobs in your head while playing. The game would need to get rebalanced/redesigned to make this more approachable, which it probably will in Midnight.
I’d reckong I’d need neither of those if Blizzard did a better job of actually visualizing mechanics.
I’d say the (assuming you get rid of addons RIGHT NOW in this season) people would no longer complete as high keys as they are because they’d be borderline impossible, yes.
The skill difference per se would still stay the same.
Define semi-seriously.
I mean yes. 15s aren’t really hard and you don’t have to no life it in order to time them but have you recently ran +10s in pugs? People are struggling with that. Hell, people even struggle in Classic raids.
And do I need to remind you that, according to Blizzard, about 70% of the players gained a DPS increase by using the new OBR?
The WoW playerbase mostly is hyper casual.
What you consider to be casual is actually pretty hardcore for the majority of the playerbase of this game.
No, you’re wrong. That statistic already only includes people who do M+. Characters who never timed a key are not included in this statistic of raider io. So M0 players are also not included.
Of those CHARACTERS that “touched” M+, 3.6% did time all +15s.
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Then don’t pull that much if it becomes a problem.
Such AoE/Raid-wide spells aside, yes.
Then I have a question for you. Do you use any of those tools/helpers?
- Addons
- MMO-Mouse with 14+ buttons
- MMO-Keyboard
If so, I’m not surprised it is easier for you because you either use a form of software or hardware to make the gameplay easier. I use neither of them and it is a bigger difference for me than you think.
Here’s the thing. In a well designed and well running video game, you should NEVER have to look up stuff outside of it to begin with. It should be all explained within the game.
To make that a bit more understandable. Imagine you go to the cinema. But the plot of the movie you watch is so convoluted and hard to understand you have to google the plot online on some wikipedia to understand it.
That’s basically the problem WoW has. Heck, we don’t even have a collections tab for showcasing the seasonal rewards of the current season in one place and where to get them (basically a “What’s new” page for the collections).
Yeah. But my point was, at the end of the day in a Mythic raid fight, do you care if your team survived the entire fight or do you care that they beat the boss? That’s basically what I am pointing at.
What does it matter if it takes a bit longer as long as the fight is completed and won?
Alright, then let me para-phrase some Marvel movie here for once.
“If you’re nothing without the addons then you shouldn’t have them”.
If the content is unplayable without addons, then that content is faulty designed. Think about that. And to fix that problem you first have to uncover it from all the 
, metaphorical speaking. Once the Addons are out of the way the content can be tuned and adjusted properly to offer the same experience without the reliance on addons to “make it work”.
Taking that example and speaking of adjusting the game… What would happen in such a case? Likely the ability would be changed to become a cast with a cast time that is easier readable for the players with telegraphing and prompt warning.
The entire approach from Blizzard regarding the combat addon removal is “rip of the band-aid and see where it still bleeds, then fix the bleeding”.
The ironic thing is, if we would have a WoW classic+ game with modern day graphics, I would absolutely consider playing it. But the dated graphics kill it for me.
And then people would complain there is no “prestige content for the best of the best”. Which is basically a “back to square one” move.
I would argue the kind of addons you use and how they are set up (if offering individual settings) makes also a gradual difference.
On a completely unrelated note I want to say that arguing with you on the forum feels quite enjoyable. Usually people argue with me much more emotional. You have my respect for that 
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Todesknodel, you have to understand the absurdity of this addon situation and how it will end up happening.
Blizzard is not removing addons from everyone. What they are doing is including all those addon functionalities into the base game. The only thing they are removing are the “Fractilious” WA stuff that impacts 0.1% of Mythic Raiders.
So basically. Its not about if Nameplates (aka, Plater) is cheating or not. It WILL be there. With ALL the information it currently provides. Just shown in a “not optimal way” and no options to customize it.
What does this impact low level players? Well their impact will be: They can currently get away with not using addons. Blizzard knows that, and that is why a +10 is that easy. They will not in the future though. They WILL make mechanics that need those addons in low tier content.
The same exact thing that happened with OBA in fact. The moment you see someone doing tank-level DPS in a low key. The first comment he gets is: Use the OBA and stop trolling.
So tomorrow. If you fail a boss mechanic, or miss a kick in a +10. The automatic response will be: Get the in-house DBM and Nameplates and stop trolling. ZERO excuses. You cant say you “did not know you needed some 3rd party program for that”.
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Then you can’t time the dungeon because the timer is too tight.
Addons, I adressed in my previous post.
MMO-Mouse, no. I have one but I actually never ended up using the side buttons which turned out to be a money waste now, lol.
What’is an MMO-Keyboard? I use a 70% mechanical keyboard. Not even from a gaming company.
I’m not trying to sound mean but you’re just coping now. I could disable absolutely every addon and time a 10 without breaking a sweat. 10s, at this point, are heavily outgeared. If you struggle with 10s now, with or without addons, it’s purely a skill issue.
I agree.
Obviously I care more about surviving the boss but that includes a necessary minimum of DPS because enraging a boss guarantees a wipe. You require both, proper mechanical gameplay and DPS.
If in both cases the boss dies, nothing, except for optimization/less time needed.
Correct. WoW has this issue and I’m also glad Blizzard is “trying” to address this.
Yes, maybe with a bit of warning beforehand. Like him yelling “BY THE MIGHT OF THOR AND THUNDER” or some bs like that.
Pretty simple actually but Blizzard fails to do so.
Understandable, though I think it does have a certain charme to it. 
Nostalgia maybe lol.
Well yes, people want prestige and hard content so they can strive for something.
Those players offer their entire UI including settings for each class they play to just copy paste for others.
Doing this doesn’t make you complete higher keys. I tried it. I had more success in customizing my own UI to my own needs.
Thanks mate, same back to you. Always appreciate a civil discussion since they’re rather rare at this point.
It might also help that I’m not opposed to the addon pruge. I’m just sceptical about the competency of Blizzard to actually not royaly mess things up.
Yes, I’m aware.
Yes, this is the part where it’s starting to get messed up.
I think this will happen, correct.
I’m aware of all of this. I’m still not entirely opposed to removing addons. Especially WeakAuras is an issue in this game.
Plater and others could stay imo. Blizzard won’t make this customizable enough I think.
Ultimately, I think just removing WA would’ve been enough, probably.
Try timing a +12 by pulling 3 mobs at a time.
You are misslead. The Suleyman Thunderclap WILL exist. And it does. You can already see midnight dungeons on the Alpha.
Except that this time, the damage will be tuned assuming you have a DBM installed. Blizzards in-house DBM.
You are seriously missinterpreting what this “addon purge” will mean for you, an “average player”.
And it has already happened by the way, so we know the results:
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You’re just wasting your time. I legit think he is trolling.
Bro thinks that competing in the Olympics and walking down a street are the same thing. He just has the most cracked takes because he has no clue.
“ahh yes in my weekly 10s we can have 50 deaths, no one kicking, pulling 3 mobs at a time and still easily time it”
absolutely out of touch.
I actually hate casual players, insufferable.
The problem is that all those addons you want to keep use the same database as WA to do their job. If you delete WA, you delete those addons as well. Hence why Blizzard is doing all this.
I would have done it a different way if I was Blizzard.
What I would have done is an in-house, ingame Curse Forge. Where there are a list of addons, a list of recomended addons, ect… And well documented with pictures and stuff.
To BE on that list you first need a “veto” from Blizzard. If you are an addon developer that wants to do something. You do it, present it to blizzard. Get their approval, and then it appears on that list.
What that allows blizzard to do is to literally tell WA developers: I know that XYZ aura exists. I know you could track it. But I dont want you to track it. So if your addon tracks it, it’s off the list.
Then any addon in the /C:WoW/addon folder that is not on that list cannot be loaded to begin with. And anyone bypassing that and using addons off that list is considered a T&S violation and get banned.
That is what I would have done.
So would I. Don’t assume I am bad at the game because I emphasize the problems people below my own playing capabilities have.
And personally it amazes me that it needs new players like me to point that out when joining the game.
Like, take the music for raid fights for example. For the past 2-3 years I have criticizes the music of WoW being too disconnected from the gameplay stuff happening on screen. Or that WoW has no “recognizable” main theme that returns.
What did that feedback from others and me yield? Changes in music like those 2 tracks:
The War Within Music - Warcraft Battle which plays during PvP, Dungeon Boss fights and other places.
The War Within Music - Dimensius obviously Dimensius, the final boss of the last Season for the Expansion (I suggested back then to at least make the music for the last raid boss outstanding if resources are spread thin)
Edit: And I want to remind people that I come from a game series where such music is centered around the gameplay even.
If the game gets harder for me, I see no issue with that. It was too easy in general anyways. Same issue Destiny 2 has compared to the first game.
If Blizzard tunes the game more suited for “thinking over just dabbling”, I’m all for it. Because even casuals will and can adjust to a bit more thinking.
No. The game will be as easy/difficult for you as it is now. As long as you use the long list of addons I use. 
If you dont. You wont time a +10 ever. Unlike today.
THAT is your future.
I doubt that very much.
I’m not assuming that you’re bad. The “you” was me speaking in general. Anybody should be able to time 10s easily with ilvl710+, even without addons. Nothing on that key level requires the use of addons with that ilvl.
If people still fail it with or without addons, it’s just a skill issue. The addon purge won’t change that.
I’ve said this for years. Same issue with some of the AoE telegraphs on the ground. They’re just really washed out and inacurate. Blizzard is just too lazy to fix them.
Like I said. Blizzard will tune a +10 assuming you are more than capable of pressing “ESC”, “OPTIONS” and clicking on the “DBM” and “Nameplates” tab (among others).
Just saying.
FYI: Those “options” in the menu appear on Alpha. In the tutorial in the starting zones for new players.
no amount of tutorials will fix people just being terrible. Even in my current keys you have people not using kicks or whatever. You can ever see overlaps so that isn’t an excuse either.
People are just lazy trolls