Are we still denying that World of Warcraft is dying?

If you would read my comment then you would understand.

Just because it’s labeled as an RPG doesn’t make it instantly so. But returning to my point, there are 0 RPG gameplay elements left in the game (hunters needing ammo, and needing to take care of their pets (with each pet being very different), Paladins being strong versus evil, warriors always carrying around a lot of weaponry so they can perform in any situation, warlocks using the souls of others to summon demons and to fuel their wicked spells…). A lot of uniqueness in each class has been taken away.

If the game is dependant on queues in order for people to play together (people you won’t see ever again), then all you are doing is minding your own business and occasionally being mad at your “teammates” because your side is losing.

Pug experience be like:…………………………

I’m really starting to think that the first time you began playing WoW was with Legion. That’s such a huge no. Classic was a slower paced game, and people were leveling pretty much always. There were people always leveling in most zones.

Dailies weren’t mandatory to progress your character. WQ-s are mandatory if you want to keep up with the power progression since WQs are one of the best ways of grinding AP. Even in Diablo3, there are a lot of gear pieces that specifically drop off doing Horadric Chests only.

Strawman at it’s strongest again. The difference between good rng loot Systems and bad rng loot Systems, is that our current loot System is RNG on top of RNG - you have to get your item from the loot table, then it needs to forge, then it needs to have socket and leech. Problem is, doing m+ will only result in a total maximum of 2 items for the whole party from several bosses (with each boss normally dropping 1-2 items). On top of this you also have your Sweet weekly chests that is just more RNG. You have to get that specific item from all the dungeon’s loottable, then it has to forge… and so on.

A good rng loot System however would be Classic - and even that could be improved upon in later expansions to create the best loot System for the game. If you looted your BiS piece, then that’s it - you no longer need to grind it out again. Raids were a bit unforgiving, given that most bosses dropped 3-4 items for 40 players, but if you got your gear, then you no longer need to farm it out again. On top of this, a lot of profession items are BiS for many classes, which creates a healthy market (Lionheart Helm, Sageblade, Arcanite Reaper, Robes of the Archmage, etc.). This System was later on further extended by the emblem / valor and justice System, where if you had poor RNG with gear, then you could still buy a few items with your acquired currency, so you don’t fall behind in progression. You could say that “BfA has Residium duh”, but it’s timegated beyond ****. You need to wait for several weeks in order to finally buy your FIX azerite piece.

As I said, the classes are not exactly the same, but you should compare (for example) Enhance Shammy, Warrior and Survival Hunter. Aside that, the larger point (and problem) is that every class has a: shieldwall, a selfheal, aoe options, burst options, sustained dmg options, mobility, CC… Remember when paladins and ONLY PALADINS were very slow moving, but they had great defensive cooldowns, one of the best instantcast CCs and their buttons hit hard? Yeah thats no longer the case.

Do I really have to repeat myself?

My point was (if you would read) that losing half of your playerbase is huge. And also, another huge Strawman. A game doesn’t suddenly start with an active playerbase of 10 million. Vanilla was mega successful, and if you would look at the number of active players, the game just kept growing and growing. The number of active playerbase compared to the total maximum (or the average of wotlk-cata) has begun falling off because of poor game design losing the interest of many players.

If you could open the link normally, then you wouldn’t get an error. But let’s try again: https:/ /mmo-population.com/top/2019 (Remove the space at the double / !)

Oh my god. Minecraft and LoL grew into huge games at pretty much the same time. Fortnite grew into a huge game while those two still existed. WoW fell off during the growth of Minecraft and LoL, but thats not causation. WoW began felling off in active player count because of poor game design losing the interest of many players. Which you could actually see illustrated in numbers if you would be competent enough to open a simple link.

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I think this goes into my favorite quote-collection xD
While I do agree WoW has had better addons I find it fascinating how people try to recreate feelings they had ~10-15 years ago and will be on a riot if things are different. Most people never look inward to think about if maybe not only the game changed but also they themselfs, their needs and expectations.

For example Star Wars: When Episode 1-3 came out people were on a riot how they differ to much from the original three movies and how that was bad. Now we are on episodes 7 and 8 and people whine about how they are the same as the original movies and don’t bring enough new stuff… whatever way Blizzard goes with WoW you will always have some who like it and others who don’t… large audience large differences in interests… actually Blizz does a pretty good job in catering to many different playstiles (imho).
Sadly often enough we see a “someone gets something I don’t like so I feel bad about it” mentality, but that’s a different topic.

I can’t take anyone serious who says WoD was worse than BfA.

You can have an opinion about basically everything but if you actually think that you are a moron.

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Seriously. You frickos always, ALWAYS say that the current expansion blows balls, and then when the next one rolls along, suddenly the old ones were good.
This is always the same. Try to appreciate what you have now and not later what you had.

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Of course she’s right when she doesn’t even play D3, made a shallow comparison and got the comparison about the rewards wrong but anything goes when it suits one’s point of view although I’m not arguing about black and white, I’m just saying that there’s a grey area where they differ and it makes a big difference in gameplay.

When it comes to common sense and what came first, features might get designed and implemented at different dates, based on the timeline of implementation and release of these features you might be right about that the M+ system was inspired by GR but in the same sense it might be that the concept of M+ predates GR.

It’s kind of amazing actually. It’s almost they get progressively worse, so the old one was good by comparison.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/bzryf0/wow_is_dead_starter_pack/

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I don’t know what you are talking about, I still think Cataclysm and Legion were crap.

@Allibaba: As I noted in another thread earlier today, it is difficult to prejudge the impact of the approaching Classic launch, but the fact remains that there are indicators that both in the US and in the EU activity is currently climbing in comparison to November 2018.

Probably because most of you aren’t playing it as an RPG. You’re playing it for raids or just PvP, not as an RPG. The RP element is still very much alive, at least on Argent Dawn. Hunters needing ammo is such a weak argument, unless you are going with the basic premise that a Hunter must carry around 1000 arrows in order to be able to fight. Have you ever tried that? Trust, me, 40 is a proper pain in the backside, 60 is nigh on impossible, 1000? Get out of here, that isn’t an RPG. You are not playing an RPG at that point, because it is not -possible- to play a character who can do that. You are not playing a Role in that setting. Needing to take care of pets was cool, but again came down to the weaknesses of the system, if your hunter likes their pet, but the zone you are in does not have the prerequisite type of food to satisfy that pet, then your pet gets grumpy? That’s not on you, that is game design, do they therefore have to put in mobs of every type to satisfy every possible pet variant, so along with carrying impossible amounts of ammunition, do Hunters furthermore get limited on their bag space by having to stock up on food prior to going to a zone? Does any other class have such arbitrary reductions on their bag space? No.
Could your character in Vanilla have -physically- carried all of the things in your bags?
No.
Is it any different now?
Yes.
Yes it is. For the better. My Hunter’s Pet is not a moron, it is an animal, a wild animal that works with me. It is perfectly capable of hunting for itself and keeping itself fed, the same as my character is able to do so. Unless you keep them in a zoo, wild animals are generally pretty good at feeding themselves and not being dependent upon a passing human to chuck them some boar meat.

You try to make the distinction and say that WoW is not an MMORPG, but it really still is.

I am in an ongoing RPPvP campaign on my server. characters get injured, characters have to be healed, have to eat, need logistics, are effected by enemy action and the game world, and interact with both friends and foes. That is the -Roleplay- element of it. Not whether my Hunter pet has a smiley face or a frowny face. Not whether I can carry a physically impossible amount of arrows or axes, but actually playing a role in the setting.
There are not 0 RPG elements left in the game, you just aren’t playing it as an MMORPG, you’re wanting a solo player RPG. That is not the same thing.

That is a choice you make. If you want to play the top end raiding or pvp game that is your choice, if you want the RPG elements you don’t have to do any of those things, they are optional.

How many people still play ‘Attic Attack’, or ‘Jet Set Willy’ or ‘Auf Wiedersehen Monty’? (I actually really miss Auf Wiedersehen Monty). So this game will be 15 years old a few days before I turn 45, It has, as a franchise, massively outlived -any- other game franchise in the popular domain. I mean seriously, a third of my entire lifespan, which I would be willing to wager is older than many here, and yet it still entertains me and I find new things to do. Of -Course- it isn’t going to be as popular as when it first came out, and that is -normal-! We all like a slice of nostalgia now and then, I watched Blade Runner again when Rutger Hauer died, to remind myself how awesome it was, that doesn’t mean that the sequel was worse, just that it was different. (Although the Star Wars films are an exception, Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones can get in the Bin, Revenge of the Sith was Kind of OK, and Rogue One and Force Awakens were pretty neat) The reason we have the phrase about looking at the past with rose tinted glasses, is that we -do-, and it is a very human thing to do! It isn’t a flaw, or a weakness of any kind, it is just a natural state for humans to be in, because we all love those times when things were new and exciting. I loved being able to ride a bike when I was a kid, nowadays I can’t be bothered, I still could, but just don’t. It doesn’t mean I think bikes are rubbish, or are dying out.

But in fairness, the first 3 episodes were pretty bad…(Yes, that was meant to be ironic, I actually saw Star Wars and Empire Strikes back on the same day for the first time on the release date of Empire, as a Matinee performance, there’s something you don’t see anymore…sighs ) this said, Rogue one, and Force Awakens I thought were pretty Cool, I loved the X-wing and TiE Fighter fights in the actual skies.

Cue every thread each week. “Anyone who likes X is a Moron!”

Oh, Wait… There we go…

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I think the point was that the mounts weren’t RNG or stupidly overpriced, not how unique they were.

If it is by the official definition. Than yes , it’s makes it more a RPG , than your own definition makes it no RPG. Your definition is worthless in the greater scale.

Shamen can seal elemental , Deathknights can control undead and turn into undead , priest can stun undead and mind control humanoids , rogues can pick pocket, druids now always play more than one speciality with the new affinity , warlocks still use souls to summon powerful demons , transmogg making every character unique,

But every game without ammunition is no RPG ?

Classic is no RPG since it misses dks who can control undead or shaman who can bind elemental. Also it has no transmogg to make your character individual.

You know you can’t auto que for arena or ? Or Rbg ? Or mythic + ? Or raids ( outsite of lfr ) ?

Actually gonna meet my old rbg group / bg in real life soon.

Was so in classsic ? Your point ?

Because people didn’t had max level at launch ? Later patches 90% of the zones were empty.

I don’t do WQ and Iam doing fine with keeping up.

Also dallie were mandatory to get enchants for shoulders / otherstuff

Watch a video of CM , Rifts , Mythic + next to each other and tell me which look similar :slight_smile:

Why does it need to ?

Classic raids dropped 2-4 items for 40 people.

Or you build your BIS at level 45 and don’t need any other item. Nice progression buddy

1 of them can cast heals , one of them has a regeneration and not a heal one of them has a insta heal.

Hunter is the only one with traps , shamen only one with totems , warrior only one with stance dance.

Hunter can only dd , warrior only tank of them , shamen only one being able to heal.

Hunter only one who uses a pet / range weapon.

Warrior only one who uses 2 2h weapons.

Same classes indeed.

Now let’s compare classic mage and warlock.

Mage only casts frostbolt and warlock only casts shadowbolt DIFFERSITY!!!

For a 15 year old game ? If you can show me a example of a 15 year old game doing better. Iam Open for it.

Just post the link like every normal human. Also I can’t find how the site gets its information also it doesn’t really works if we compare it to this

http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/

That’s like your opinion.

WoD had the worst mounts but atleast they weren’t locked behind paragon box RNG like they are now, along with toys and recipes. Now got 3 from mechagon and only the first one gave me a RNG missed recipe other to were just 4-5k+ gold and 500 resources. The only reason I do the daily there is for the epic crafting mat, got enough spare boxes, game! TY!

Wait, so raiders didn’t need certain BIS shoulder enchants and others which were locked behind rep which was locked behind dailies?

It was known they were the faction you needed for them. Only needed it do once per account and more improtantly… it wasn’t op (this barcers is better than a 455 socket one" or RNG (Buy endless tokens to proc the correct with a socket).

This is also no comparison how they forced everybody but diehard M+ only players to grind for RNG on pearls. I love the people saying “if you don’t have all 4 slots with socket you didn’t try”. near 1k looted on the main, only got the hands on a socket! Plenty of tank ones or you swim faster procced though…

They should have simply done:

  1. Flat out don’t allow the procs in raids
  2. Adjusted the stat budget for giving low tier items trinket like effects
  3. No DPS increase procs but related to Nazjatar as a zone only
  4. Socket couldn’t proc or had to be bought. So no I got it on my first try and the other person is taking near a thousand pearls and doesn’t have it.

The proc on the boots is already 55 ILs for some specs. That’s means doing opening quest, picking boots, click upgarde and you got BiS for the patch.

It’s sad to read guild chat were people were more excited to receive a benthic piece with a socket 5.5 weeks in than a mythic drop. No wonder because they are downgrades. Makign catch-up gear so powerfull was a mistake. They are BiS, 425s are better than 455s. yet it’s Blzizard who wants us to go IL over stats and effects. Well they failed, especially with rings. A 400 good stats socket is better than a mediocore 440. Gear progression is backwards doing harder content can give you worse rewards than just playing bejeweled.

Same way about TF, it needs a cap, go back to MOP/WoD system (upgrade system) or a combination of the two where getting a TF proc is like receiving a free upgrade you won’t have to grind for.

Sockets on RNG? Just get rid of it and make JC good again, gear has either socket or it doesn’t.

I am not going into all that detail, I am pointing out that a bland statement of dailies not being required to progress your character is wrong as they were. I also recall that they were BOP as you couldn’t put them on the AH so if you needed an shoulder enchant for another character you needed to grind the rep on that character too.

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I wonder if them being basic recolours and reskins had something to do with their availability. Hmmm.

The only unique mount I can remember is the Fel Dread Raven, and that took around a month of straight Apexis grind to get, so barely anyone has it anyways. Most other unique mounts were also locked behind Mythic raid kills. No different to how it works now.

What?
Why would that have anything to do with it? The 100 exalted rep mount is a re-colored mount too. Zero correlation.
There is a difference now because the rep mounts cost 72k - 500k gold.

Legion was crap? My word.

Because Blizzard is actively trying to drop the amount of gold out in the economy.