Honestly, I never felt so dirty in the whole time I played WoW.
What we basically do is help a Fascist and opressive Regime kill and/or Lobotomize Resistance-Fighters, all while praising the Regime to be the good guys.
I hate myself everytime I have to help them kill Forsworn. So much so that I actively try to avoid doing WorldQuests in Bastion.
Was that the intention of Blizzard, or did just nobody proofread the writing?
Oh, and please let us join the Forsworn, so we can fight the Kyrians.
Don’t forget they help the Jailer.
Well, you can feel however you prefer about it.
What I personally find the most odd thing in the whole kyrian ascention part, is that the shapes and abilities of whatever they should “get out” of themselves, such as this thing
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/409839470779564032/785570475312152606/WoWScrnShot_120620_201107.jpg
are more or less identical to the powers that are attributed to the Maw
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/032/885/710/large/sarah-carmody-sl-earlymawanimaconcepts.jpg
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/032/885/714/large/sarah-carmody-sl-zoneinfluenceonanima.jpg
So, I am not really sure if we have a full story so far. Whether one like it or not, the price for not doing it might be a lot bigger than seems at the first glance. I guess time will tell how Bastion will evolve, and why every soul has something that looks like the darkness of the Maw in them.
gl hf
It’s always baffling what other people percieve differently while doing the same stuff as you… I just saw an inflexible self-improvement program that didn’t really know how to best deal with failures, and the failures running amok.
And while I agree that getting rid of one’s memories to improve oneself isn’t for everyone, I am quite sure it is a good idea for some, and those should rightfully fit in a place like Bastion. If they don’t, I blame the Arbiter.
At least, in that quest where you are to encourage doubtful aspirants, there’s an option to tell them the process is bs and they’d better give up. Upon which they become Forsworn.
But that’s as much of a choice you get as a player. Ironically, when you kill Forsworn they say “You could have joined us” when really you never could.
That is the literal definition of a Lobotomy.
In the Questlines, the Kyrians becoming forsworning literally tell you they do it so they wont get memorywhiped and just want to be free.
Pains of the past is what makes the person. Its always bad to supress or remove llife-memories. You never end up with the same person as they where before.
…no. Just no. Look up the term. And no one gets their memories stolen. They get encouraged to get rid of them themselves.
Indeed. The goal is to become the best version of yourself you could ever become, not to stay the person you were.
No they dont. They get bullied and coerced into doing it. If they dont they get declared enemies of the state.
Oh and yes, that is the definition, if you summarize the effects of a Lobotomy it fits perfectly into what the Kyrians are doing.
Have you spoken to the converted NPCs? They are creepy husks of former people. Surprise they dont start drooling while you talk to them.
Oh well, confirmation bias at work, have fun.
Dont be defensive. This part of the WoW-Forum is about discussing and theorizing about Lore and Story. Its perfectly fine that you and I have different opinions.
I would never assume I am right, I am just speculating.
Maybe there really is something bigger behind it. At the moment though for me the Kyrians are the purest form of evil in the whole Expansion so far.
Okay… on what basis, though? Some souces for lobotomized behaviour and people who didn’t attack first being declared enemies would be nice. Those are quite strong claims that sound ridiculous to me.
You mean ingame?
Its the whole concept. Anytime a conflict between Forsworn and Kyrian is pictured, the Forsworn only want to keep their personalities intact.
Plus the whole of Bastion is swarming with people that look like they dont know whats happening around them. Everyone is docile, blindly following the few winged Kyrians giving orders no one objects to.
Anyone that doesnt adhere gets killed, in no small parts by us, the players.
…no, they are literally attacking the temples, and forcing the Aspirants and Kyrians to convert or die.
Being docile might be one character trait that most people who go to Bastion have in common. Since the population of any Shadowlands realm isn’t randomly selected but exactly by character traits, I don’t find that suspicious in the least. And a lifestyle of quiet contemplation is certainly not something in any way similar to the lobotomy experience.
Where? Where do Kyrians initialize the violence against fallen aspirants or Kyrians? In the quest where they first pop up they attack you. Then they swarm the temple of purity, killing everyone who opposes them.
If the Arbiter drives you to Bastion it’s because she considers your memory as a potential burden. Those who take their strength from their memories will go to Maldraxxus.
There’s literaly a kyrian turning dark in front of the hand of purity. After that he just walks away without problem.
Dude…
That’s a bit to much isn’t it?
I mean, the covenant indeed has its flaws, but tagging it as such seems a bit excessive.
In the words of Obi Wan Kenobi it’s all from a certain point of view.
The Arbiter Judges a souls choices, thoughts, actions and intentions.
Those sent to the Kyrian are judged by the Arbiter as both perfect candidate while also believing that, that is personally the best afterlife from them. You are not just randomly selected.
The Morsworn was not born from a entity simply rebelling against the idea of losing your memories but instead from the corruption to Uthers Soul,
If the Morsworn with Righteous and Just, and are simply attempting to change the “opressive ruleset” which is to ascend through abandoning ones needs and past self, they would not seek to destroy the Shadow Lands and the realm of the living, rather simply change that you could ascend while maintaining your individuality…
The problem with this… is by maintaining your individuality, you past would directly impair your judgement and would result in exactly what happened to Arthas, you judging the Soul and taking it where you believe it should go because your past history has blinded you into judging the Soul as opposed to simply taking to the Arbiter for an unbiased judging.
The Morswon are evil
The Kyrian are NOT evil. They are simply doing a JOB and although the choice to go to Bastion is not directly your own, all your actions, thoughts and FREE WILL is taken into account by an entity who is unbiased. So it is initially BETTER that she makes the decision as opposed to you. You often don’t really know what you want, because what you want is often determined by past history. Which is exactly why you must sacrifice that history in order to become a winged Kyrian…
Okay, let’s not go to the other pole either.
Assuming that the Arbiter is infallible may be about as flawed as assuming the opposite.
Regardless of the whole otherworldly fantasy behind the entire expansion premise, we’ve had examples and cases when these sort of beings ended up being about as flawed as any mortal.
If the Arbiter never failed in her judgement, we wouldn’t have beings exploiting the system bugs for their own benefit. Or regarding Bastion in particular, we wouldn’t have a single aspirant failing any test in their path to Ascension.
And fact is, we have plenty of both.
Alexandros Morgraine asked this in Bastion “Why wasn’t I chosen for Bastion?”
“I dedicated my whole life to serve the light.” Wanna know the answer? Cause Arbiter judged his memories as strength and not a burden. To bastion souls of those whose memories are more of a burden go. Uther Lightbringer is the greatest example of someone made weak through their experience. And that’s the point of Bastion. To strip the soul of this burden and set them free. Call it fascists all you like, but forsworn are doing the opposite of what they believe they are doing.
On a different note, I actually would really like to understand the process of becoming forsworn better. Your clothes and wings suddenly going dark, visibly marking you as someone who has refused to walk the kyrian path, is a bit strange. Is that jut a game gimmick to make them wasier to distinguish, or is this also meant as a genuine feature of kyrian bodies? Bit of a strange feature to develop, isn’t it? Especially considering that fallen aspirants and kyrians tend to be on the unstable side.
I think this entire thing is greatly exaggerated by too many people. The Kyrians are neither good nor evil. Their purpose is to be the immortal ferries of souls from the plane of the living to Oribos, where the souls are to be judged by the Arbiter. They have to be impartial and free of the burdens they had while they were mortal, because those burdens are a weakness and an unnecessary detriment.
Most who are chosen to join the kyrians display qualities needed to ascend as one: selflessness, discipline and putting the needs of the majority before one’s own. Individuals are part of something much greater and more important than themselves. That is why, in order to ascend, a purge of the burdens of their past lives is necessary. Firstly, they are going to be spending eons as the immortal ferries of the dead. Their past lives are meaningless in the grand scheme, merely a grain of sand in an endless desert.
You can also see the stark contrast between the Kyrians and the Maldraxxi: While Kyrians put the collective above the individual, the Maldraxxi do the opposite: individual is what matters, and it is up to individuals to carve their place in the brutal hierarchy by displaying the qualities of a perfect soldier that is prized by their peers.
So to summarize: No, I personally do not see the Kyrians as some evil regime. I see them as a neutral and impartial cog in the machine that is necessary, no, even imperative for the machine to work. There is little need to be bound by their past, when that past is detrimental to their cause.
Just my two cents. 