No, it’s not just chaos bolt. It’s not just warlocks either, it’s their comps.
On the other hand warlocks face comps that are incredibly disruptive and that pretty much escalates the problem of chaos bolt having to hit hard and warlocks needing lot of cc’s to get them off.
Counter question would be, what spells should be unpruned?
Some spells should be left dead, buried and forgotten. Preferably with some deadly curses protecting the tombs in case anyone dares to get approach them.
I know the consensus of this forum is that “pruning is bad”, but the problem will in the end always be, what should be unpruned?
I think a more interesting question would be, what sort of gameplay would people in general prefer? And since that’s a rather large and vague question another one could be added, what sort of strengths and weaknesses should my spec have?
Preferably without diluting the spec’s and make them all seem the same’ish, which has been an problem as well.
Do you know between what abilities rogues have lost access to?
.<
How about you roll a rogue, play assassination and take shadowstep off your bars?
Fel Flame, Shadowflame, Conflag gets its root back, Soulfire, Backlash, Nether Ward but as an absorb or magic damage reduction Shield, Howl of Terror but there I’d be okay with it needing a decision between another CC of the likes, instant Shadowfury ffs… Demon and Fel Armor in their original form, Soul Burn should make a comeback and the DPS cooldown can be pruned away. F*ck cooldown based bullsh!t
Adding to the Rogue discussion: What annoys me the most is that Rogue players always forget that their kit USED to be designed around stealth being a strong mechanic and that came with obvious drawbacks, yet Blizzard removed almost all the drawbacks over time, WITHOUT ADJUSTING THEIR RESPECTIVE KIT.
Sap should be 6s at most, not 8. Cheap Shot needs to be redesigned aswell. Everything that would be busted if it didn’t have the restriction on only being usable while stealthed should’ve been adjusted to account for all the changes.
Like they moved 50% slower during stealth, not mount speed they move atm.
They couldnt just build 5 combo and instantly swap before. They had to build the combos from scratch.
Look how Warlocks design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - A slow caster, with variety of demons to serve, with wast self-fealing capabilities, and wast CC toolkit.
And now what we have?
Slow - Check
variety of demons to serve - check, but nerfed and pruned as hell.
Self-healing - pruned.
CC - pruned.
How Rogues design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - a high risk - high reward damage dealer, with cast CC capabilities, and good mobility, with no self-healing mechanics.
Mobility - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs
CC - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs.
high risk - high reward style - now it is a “no risk - high reward” class.
no self-healing mechanics - no self-healing mechanics - now has good self healing tools.
What the hell is this?
While i as warlock lost whole mechanics like metamorphosis, that was given in slightly diffirent form to the Spriest, my healing tools “healthstone was transformed into healing potion, with same restrictions(1 use per combat)” while rogues has recieved a crimson vial - a 30% healing spell on 30 seconds CD. While i lost half of my CC abilities, and that was left baseline was nerfed to the ground like shadowfury is now castable, and fear now breaks from 1 point of damage, rogues CC was left intact or was being improved. My baseline escape spell - demonic circle was made into a talent, while rogues has recieved new talents to improve their current mobility or add new ones.
Yes Destro damage is broken, but what destro would be if chaosbolt will be nerfed? Like in Legion affli was good only because of overpowered self-heals, destro now good only because of chaosbold damage. I would like to rebalance our damage, but only if we as warlocks will recieve a well-thought rework, because right now, my class is nerfed, pruned and just broken. And see how classes as mages/rogues was improved and polished, makes me to quiestion blizzard class design team.
Making a character that is designed to sit on a target with tons of pressure without crowd control and then complains that they don’t have the same toolkit as one that is balanced around it
At some point Rogue might have been balanced around it, but in no way is Warrior sitting on you more dangerous than Rogue.
It’s not about damage.
It’s about utility.
Currently Rogue utility has no downside. Which is retarded. Stealth should slow you down, so you have to move more carefully and play well, leaving stealth should disallow using stealth-only abilities, so again, you have to consider playing careful and well.
And you shouldn’t have self heal, so you don’t just Vanish whenever you please and heal to full, until the target dies. That’s bad design where one target is directly inferior.
Currently if I play 2s, out of 5 most common teams I meet, 3 of those contains Rogues.
They can use CC to avoid damage, they can use cooldowns to avoid damage, they have DR on 15 sec CD and they can vanish whenever they risk dying and come back whenever they are full HP and vanish off CD again.
That’s funny because Warrior kick, and most melee kicks, do not last 3s but 4s.
Sure sure, so that it’s now impossible to move way from the box before a shaman on mount drops a totem on you, a dk a dnd, a druid a meteor, and so on and so on. Stealth mov speed shouldn’t be reduced as long as it’s as easy to aoe half the arena. Nerf both then okay.
I was unaware I had a spammable self heal allowing me back to full everytime I manage to slip away.
Try looking at leaderboards above 1k9 then say that again.
Dumbest comment you’ve made to this day to everyone who did play PvP once in his life. First, Rogues risk death much more often than once every 2mins. So we can’t vanish when in danger everytime. Also Vanish is one of the best CD to score a kill. Blowing just because we failed to kick a bolt might save us from this bolt but then we lose on a very important win condition. Also with Vial being the only heal we have when playing the 15s CD DR we would need close to 1min and a half to heal to full from near death. Try playing an arena, with any class, and when the enemy team has pressure go back to your box, don’t play for 1 minute and a half, hell even one minute, and see how your team fars in 2vs 1 or 3vs2 for that long. Spoiler alert, they’ll die.
why wouldnt it be the case anyways when you combine the 2 class with the highest mobility and infinite spammable cc to oblivion not even talking about the absurd damage comming along with it.
Not mention when mage and rogue had self healing like in Cata… it was freaking horrible. During that same expansion Rogues still found a way to claim being an underdog class when they were litteraly walking rdruid with sap, blind, cheap shot etc…
They still have to know exactly where you are. But obviously when you ‘hide’ in plain sight (literally stealthing in front of their place) you shouldn’t be rewarded for it as much.
Stealth right now is too much idiot-proof. And this idiot-proof stealth is in addition to Subterfuge. That’s way too much.
And it might be easy to AoE, but for most classes it either cost resources or has some cooldown and there is plenty spots to shoot.
I think it’s reasonable to ask for Rogue to be required to play well rather than for a Rogue to be rewarded for just being Rogue by having mechanic, that’s pretty much uncouterable.
Note that slow movement during stealth would fix the vision debuff in arena so Rogues can’t prolong games infinately… as they can now.
I didn’t say spammable… that’s a word you added just to have something to find wrong with my statement. Which was not wrong because I didn’t say it and you strawman me.
And yes, Rogue can heal up to full in stealth, because he can prolong stealth infinately. A minute in stealth is guaranteed full HP because of Vial.
Can Rogue last minute in stealth without being found? Yes. You can just pillar hug. Not even the arena debuff won’t help enemy if you LoS with sprint.
Depends on Rogue. If he wants, he never risks death, he can just sneak infinately until he has Vanish and Trinket off CD.
well, you weren’t ever good at Math, were you?
I guess you counted it as Vial has 30 sec CD, you need to use 3 (that’s 90% HP)(rest of that is literally healing out of combat, so doesn’t matter) and you - being bad at math - probably thought it means 30 sec * 3…
well, news flash, but you can use 1st vial in T=0sec, then another in T=30sec and then another in T=60sec. In other words, when vial is off CD, it takes minute to heal to full from 10% by just using Vial. If you leave combat, then you have out of combat regen too.
![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")