That’s funny because Warrior kick, and most melee kicks, do not last 3s but 4s.
Sure sure, so that it’s now impossible to move way from the box before a shaman on mount drops a totem on you, a dk a dnd, a druid a meteor, and so on and so on. Stealth mov speed shouldn’t be reduced as long as it’s as easy to aoe half the arena. Nerf both then okay.
I was unaware I had a spammable self heal allowing me back to full everytime I manage to slip away.
Try looking at leaderboards above 1k9 then say that again.
Dumbest comment you’ve made to this day to everyone who did play PvP once in his life. First, Rogues risk death much more often than once every 2mins. So we can’t vanish when in danger everytime. Also Vanish is one of the best CD to score a kill. Blowing just because we failed to kick a bolt might save us from this bolt but then we lose on a very important win condition. Also with Vial being the only heal we have when playing the 15s CD DR we would need close to 1min and a half to heal to full from near death. Try playing an arena, with any class, and when the enemy team has pressure go back to your box, don’t play for 1 minute and a half, hell even one minute, and see how your team fars in 2vs 1 or 3vs2 for that long. Spoiler alert, they’ll die.
why wouldnt it be the case anyways when you combine the 2 class with the highest mobility and infinite spammable cc to oblivion not even talking about the absurd damage comming along with it.
Not mention when mage and rogue had self healing like in Cata… it was freaking horrible. During that same expansion Rogues still found a way to claim being an underdog class when they were litteraly walking rdruid with sap, blind, cheap shot etc…
They still have to know exactly where you are. But obviously when you ‘hide’ in plain sight (literally stealthing in front of their place) you shouldn’t be rewarded for it as much.
Stealth right now is too much idiot-proof. And this idiot-proof stealth is in addition to Subterfuge. That’s way too much.
And it might be easy to AoE, but for most classes it either cost resources or has some cooldown and there is plenty spots to shoot.
I think it’s reasonable to ask for Rogue to be required to play well rather than for a Rogue to be rewarded for just being Rogue by having mechanic, that’s pretty much uncouterable.
Note that slow movement during stealth would fix the vision debuff in arena so Rogues can’t prolong games infinately… as they can now.
I didn’t say spammable… that’s a word you added just to have something to find wrong with my statement. Which was not wrong because I didn’t say it and you strawman me.
And yes, Rogue can heal up to full in stealth, because he can prolong stealth infinately. A minute in stealth is guaranteed full HP because of Vial.
Can Rogue last minute in stealth without being found? Yes. You can just pillar hug. Not even the arena debuff won’t help enemy if you LoS with sprint.
Depends on Rogue. If he wants, he never risks death, he can just sneak infinately until he has Vanish and Trinket off CD.
well, you weren’t ever good at Math, were you?
I guess you counted it as Vial has 30 sec CD, you need to use 3 (that’s 90% HP)(rest of that is literally healing out of combat, so doesn’t matter) and you - being bad at math - probably thought it means 30 sec * 3…
well, news flash, but you can use 1st vial in T=0sec, then another in T=30sec and then another in T=60sec. In other words, when vial is off CD, it takes minute to heal to full from 10% by just using Vial. If you leave combat, then you have out of combat regen too.
To answer to this I will quote myself, which you yourself quoted, and make the important word a bit larger so you see it well this time.
That means, if you move slowly, ob half the maps a shaman can just dash out the when the gates open and drop earthgrab on the doorframe and he will get you. A druid can leap meteor. Because if you move slowly you can’t escape the door in time. Clear now ?
You mean those same resources that need zero management now,like Mage mana or Warlock shards ? Nice try.
It works with any class then, nerfing one will make it below the rest. Let’s see… I think it’s reasonable to ask for a Warlock to be required to play well rather than for a Warlock to be rewarded for just being a warlockby having (dumb) mechanics that’s pretty much uncounterable. See what I did ?
They could stay hidden ad vitam eternam before back when they moved slowly too as long as there was only one player without a pet… Just like now !
Good. Then you are aware we can’t go back to full with it unless we spend 1m30 waiting IF there is no dampening at all. Vial with zero damp is 30% on 30s cd. If for some reason you’re in a 3s game and everyone is dead but you and lne enemy before dampening then you need more than a minutr for guaranteed full health. If you’re in 2s or there is dampening, just rip. Also aside from warriors (who will heal once you come back if they are fury) dh (same) dk (same) every class can heal while we are away but warlocks, so, you being frustrated of life isn’t enough of a reason to attack other classes spells. Also all warlocks when fighting a rogue in 1v1 can just get succubus when the rogue is away and if crystals appear, they catch the rogue, if rogur opens before he gets charmed, rooted, bolted, feared, bolted, and then you win. No need for heals.
Oh you mean after everyone is dead in a duel. Because in an actual game in which everyone is alive you’re in danger when the enemy wants to, and you cannot just wait it out. Then yes, he cn against some classes. Druids can do that too and I’d say a hunter can give the same treatment to a lot of classes.
No. You being stupid isn’t me being bad at math. I do realize that IF you already have the CD ready AND if there is no dampening you only need it two times. Now I guess we are talking about a guaranteed heal back ti full. I’l already being tolerant about your lack of realism by accepting the assumption that such a duel occurs at zero dampening, which would be with 4 people dead in 3s before damp hits. But then be consistent. You said guaranteed. I do use vial to keep myself alive when I play. I don’t wait for the cd to be ready to vanish away. So I might now have it and I’d even say if I HAVE to vanish it’s because I do not have it. And so we get to one minute and a half. Turn your brain on because it’s painful answering your idiocy right now. You should stop trying to sound like a smart person when you’re obviously not.
that’s literally case for no map at all, I am not talking about speed of 5% but rather 70% or something like that
Clear, but untrue.
If you think Shards need 0 management as Warlock, then you clearly do not know what you’re talking about. And as for Mage, Arcane AoE is predictable and easy to play around and Frost Mage has cast time, therefore predictable as well.
I agree. That’s however Warlock’s “survivability”. I’d not say it’s uncounterable, it’s just overall way too strong. And it needs to be in terms of Warlock overall design and redesign is warranted.
If you mean damage however, then you’re completely wrong. Warlock is easiest class to counter its damage to exist in WoW right now, because of its combination of hard casted spenders and low mobility.
well, if there is the revealing “eye” in the arena and stealth slows you down, then they’re unlikely to stay hidden forever, as you can eventually see them mounted up and break their stealth and catch them, because they won’t run away
now even if you’re mounted, they just sprint for as long as you have the eye and you never reveal them
Saying Rogue can heal 90% of its HP in a minute isn’t being inconsistent just because you use it regularly. Yes you do use it regularly, but that doesn’t change fact you can heal 90% HP in a minute.
Sprint + stealth, 190% mov speed for 8s, slower than a mount, lasts less than the eye, and there are two eyes. Speed isn’t the issue with not being caught by some classes. You seem very much full of rogue knowledge.
Just like you can’t. It’s like saying okay your team dies you’re in 1v1 with me you WILL have 2 infernals within 3mins. Well no, it’s not guaranteed because infernal id likely to be on cd when your team dies, instead of being kept for an eventual 1v1. You used the word guaranteed, you were wrong, deal with it.
yes, eye lasts longer, but let’s just assume Rogue isn’t idiotic (might be kinda difficult to imagine for you) and he is hanging out far from eye, so by the time, enemy reaches spot he is close to, he can sprint away. He is not required to press Sprint ASAP.
If you think there is any counter to Rogue hiding forever then you’re bad at hiding.
Which kinda makes sense when you apologize noob-friendly stealth that’s being crazy positive, that even when they found you, it doesn’t matter.
That’s true and you can summon 2 Infernals in 3 min.
where exactly did I use it? You keep saying that, yet you never quoted it.
Also, you claim I am wrong, yet you failed to provide case for it…
“it’s like…” isn’t proof of being wrong, it’s analogy or comparison, it might be proof if you proof the other thing is wrong and that there is connection… I do admit the connection is there but you failed that the other is wrong too, therefore by itself isn’t enough and you’re here accusing me empty handed
Yes and? I don’t quite get your point. That’s what I’m saying, have your perhaps understood my post as some kind of defense for rogues/mages, cause it’s not.
On the contrary, rogues have no right to whine because even when they, alone, haven’t been the strongest or among the strongest melees (which is seldom) they still are absolutely viable because of the best synergy combo in wow history - rogue - mage.
There is still the second eye, and mount speed is still more important than sprint speed. Try harder.
It depends on the map and on the class you fight against. A class with a pet can get you everytime without even being smart (Hunters, DKs, Warlocks) because whenever they get the eye can use a stealth pet, or one that you can’t sap, click your frame and order pet to attack, while a Fire Mage can never really win unless the game is on Lordaeron and he has CD advantage when the duel begins.
So yeah, pet classes are pretry much the counter you talk about. Not everyone can do it though which makes some classes unable to win the 1v1. But then every class has something counterable only by a few classes (like havoc into coil and curse dispel).
Yes, if you have the cd when the 3min window begins. So me saying whatever happens in the arena, as soon as we’re in 1v1 you’ll get 2 infernals in 3 mins is just wrong as it assumes you already have the cd. Might be true might not. So, I shouldn’t say for sure that will happen as it might just not be true. Are you that dense ?
I don’t think I failed, it’s that simple. You claim as Rogue it takes one minute to fully heal from stealth so it’s broken unfair etc etc warlock tears when you’re the best class to spot a Rogue in arena duel. The thing is it takes one minute IF there is zero dampening, which is never the case when such z duel occurs but lets just forget this, and also IF the Rogue goes to hide with the cd just ready. This is proven by simple math, as you said, zero damp, use at t0, t30s t60s, bam, 90% hp. But you’re making two assumptions to reach that result and it’s then incorrect to claim that a Rogue WILL get back to full in a minute in are’a because even if we accept to forget about you being unrealistic enough to let dampening aside that miracle one minute healing only occurs if the rogue who wzs fighting and didn’t need to vanish because he was fine let himself be damaged, didn’t press his heal and was then forced to vanish. Basically the rogue has to be so bad he refuses to trade a 30s cd just to blow a 2min one and say hey look I can use my 30s cd three times there in a minute 'cause I saved it. Flash news, if you heal for 30% in a 1v1 while you fight, so if you actually press vial, you last longer, might not need to vanish and even if you do need it in the end you force the enemy to commit more, so there is no good reason not to do it unless you vanish to avoid a oneshot that vial wouldn’t prevent. Making your assumption ridiculously stupid.
Also, if you believe arenas are balanced around the 1vs1 that occurs when everyone dies in a 3vs3 game beforr dampening you’re very stupid, sorry. The game is actuay balanced around a 3vs3 game with 6 people alive and in those games you can’t afk 1m and you can’t just decide when you’re in danger because the enemy team doesn’t answer to your will. If we talk about 1v1 arena balance then why are pet classes allowed to send their pet deal damage, why are shamans allowed to never be slowed and heal in the process and then lasso/root people without having to try, why are rets allowed to bubble at 90% dampening during wings and delete the other guy, why can pets target and attack stealthed units when their master has the eye and is out of los… Because the game isn’t made for those situations ! Crazy right ?
“Another problem with the warrior is that it’s just a warrior, adding any spell other than blunt damage, shouts and leaps will pull the warrior away from being just a fighter.”
I disagree. This is the problem with Blizz right now, I think they lack imagination when it comes to the design of the arms warrior. It feels like our “Class Fantasy” is being used against us rather than help us become something unique and awesome.
Let’s take the non magical melee classes in the game:
1- Rogues: An outlaw rogue is a pirate, he can use guns, Assa rogues got their poisons (no reason why a warrior can’t apply poisons as well), Subtle rogues use shadow magic (Gloom Blade, shadow step, Subtle rogues feel more super natural).
2- Survival Hunter: He has a pet, a crossbow to deliver poison darts, grenades, traps, he almost feels like a Yautja from the Predator movies.
There’s a lot of potential in a Warrior as long as you don’t restrict him and treat him as a normal npc, think about it this way: What’s so unique about Warriors that made them a playable class? Why not delete warriors since they are basically guardsmen and turn Ret paladins into the main warrior class.
Warriors are a class because even though they lack magic and the supernatural, they can still survive and compete in a world filled with magic and technology (which is why I love them). Warriors are people that refuse to surrender just because others have magic and other silly nonsense so they need to be highly adaptable at fighting other enemies. The battlefields of WoW evolved, we have a lot of highly mobile characters with a crap ton of magical damage that goes right through our tough shells and so warriors need to evolve to match that as well.
Best example on an Arms warrior is Guts from berserk, (in case you don’t know the character, the dude supplement his lack of magic with a huge sword, a repeating crossbow, throwing knives and a cannon added to his fake arm since he lost it in a battle).
This is why the designers should go wild when it comes to their design, for example:
1- Arms warriors should have specialised tools for every occasion, like harpoons to drag enemies, javelins to pin them, grenades, mini cannons, enchanted weapons, enchanted amulet to shield from magic, special bonuses when using different weapons (since in real life, axes, swords and maces have different uses) he should excel in silencing magic users and nullifying their effects since .
2- Fury Warriors should be more like reavers from Dragon Age, they should dive more into the super natural aspects of a warrior, they should be feeding on fear and death. They should be masters of psychological warfare as their presence alone should be demoralising.
3- Prot should higher damage potential as a sword & board (historically speaking) was a great offensive combo. It makes sense since you don’t have the magic but you have the time to master the art of S&B fighting style. The gladiator stance made perfect sense for warriors and it was the main reason why I returned to WoW.
Sorry but no Ty tanks were and are aids in PvP. They should ban them from arena, not buffing them.
Fighting raidsbosses with more utility, more survivability and decent damage is way too much for most of the classes to deal with them.
Pve wise I agree, it feels good to actually do some damage while you’re not tanking the boss and help your group meanwhile. Like guardian with resto affinity. You can heal while not tanking and you can help alot you’re group, for example how I progressed on lady ashvane on first week. We done intentionally with less healers, but 4 druid with resto affinity who were helping out the healers when it was needed
Ah I understand where you’re coming from. I guess that I just want to see S&B used for DPS rather than for tanking, maybe it can be an arms thing. Like instead of getting a crappy shield animation when go into D-Stance, you actually switch to a 1h weapon with a shield that you need to equip in your character screen then you gain abilities like shield bash and what not.
You know, just something to break the shield cliche in RPGs and make something new and unique (just like what they did with the survival hunter when they turned it into a melee class).
You’re working with assumption that Rogue has zero healing traits (even in tournament they often have at least one) and that you’re literally at 1% HP.
I said fully heal, because in most realistic scenario, you don’t end up being Vanishing at 1% (pretty rare to make it) AND have no healing traits, so yes, in most realistic scenarios 90% + healing traits + out of combat regen is fully heal after you vanish even in dampening.
You’re trying to excuse that by appealing to unrealistic scenario of you Vanishing at 1%, having no healing traits, out of combat regen not existing and THEN you might get healed to almost full instead of full.
Even if you were right, it’d not defeat my point. But you’re not even right.
Unless you play Rogue Mage in 2s your only healing traits trigger on taking damage. Quite a feat do trigger them when in stealth waiting to be full health.
I always knew Overlors Whisperer had secrets unavailable to simple mortals. Thank you for allowing us to bask in your most greatest knowledge of this game.
Not really. E.G Self Reliance and Lying in Wait.
You do literally have the latter two. Figuring out you’re wrong would be as easy as to read your own traits.
This is exactly why I don’t take your opinion just because you said so, because you can be wrong too and you simply often are.
I’ve seen Lying in wait used in tournament. Maybe they had to, but that’s irrelevant. I don’t care why, but I care if. And the if condition is true. They do use it.
Waoh. Well listen. Being an imbecile is one thing. It’s your nature, you can’t help it. We got that. On the other hand being an annoying ever assuming and misinformed prick is something you can - and should - work on. Let’s justify that very fast.
We start with :
Everyone who knows Rogues, or the game for that matter, knows that you go for Impassive Visage or Resounding Protection if you have a choice. By default people are not going to pick healing traits that heal out of combat especially since you usually are in combat.
Then I’m saying :
To that what is your answer ?
See, that’s what we’re talking about. You don’t make research, you assume, and you believe in your idiocy. That’s a very big deal.
I always am in PvE gear unless I’m IN an arena. Same for talents. It means I log out with PvE gear. Thus checking my traits wou’d reveal PvE traits and then I pick the less worse defensive one since all I care about are the first three rings. So your argument is invalid.
I do, in fact, have a few self healing out of combat traits, guess why ? Because I play double dps comps in 2s, and I save those pieces for that as long as they have decent outer ring traits because Lying in Wait helps a lot with resets. And guess what I also said when we talked healing traits ?
Aaaand voila. This is why you look like an imbecile. You can’t even read. I’m telling you unless RM (or other double dps that involve resetting, didn’t specify) you avoided these traits and then what do you do ? You don’t verify the info you don’t look at better players than me nooo too easy you look at my char in PvE gear, when I do play double dps in 2s too, and you claim I’m wrong because I have those traits? Surely you must have been joking. I just didn’t realize.
Indeed, but I guess when it comes to my character, the traits I play, and Rogue in general you are severely lacking compared to me. Imagine having the arrogance to believe you knew my trait selection better than me. Astounding. Remarkable even.
Oh, to justify my first - very - aggressive sentence towards your dumb attitude, here’s something :
You show yourself that you do not understand why things are as they are and that you aren’t even willing to improve on that field. Yet you want your word to have value ? Again, astounding.