Define me what honorable is first.
All I see is Sylvanas saving Horde lives with her weapons of mass destruction.
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Except for those that died when those WMDs were used
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People die when they’re killed.
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You don’t say.
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Baine stands by the true values of the horde unlike that hag called " warchief ".
ironic you call baine dishonourable with the way she wages war, not even mentioning teldrassil.
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So true … cause we all know the “true values” of the horde is to help the enemy faction and being a bff with the leader of the enemy faction…
No the true values is not acting dishonorably like burning innocent civilians alive and blighting and raising your own troops.
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This thread about to explode. Again.
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Fasten your seatbelt, the ride never ends.
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The Horde is made up of orcs, forsaken, tauren, trolls, blood elves, and most recently, goblins. Misunderstood and cast aside, these diverse and powerful races strive to overcome their differences and unite as one in order to win freedom for their people and prosper in a land that has come to hate them.
In the Horde, action and strength are valued above diplomacy, and its leaders earn respect by the blade, wasting no time with politics. The brutality of the Horde’s champions is focused, giving a voice to those who fight for survival
1: Civilian casualties happens.
2: How do we even know the skeletons that got raised WAS horde soldiers who died to the blight? and not to an alliance soldier.
Did some of them die to the blight? yea prob but if you played the battle for lordaeron you would have seen many of the npcs you save say “It was foolish of me to get caught away from the line. Thank you for the second chance”
And to me that makes it sound like they had some kind of “don’t cross line” in cause of blight being used.
Why blizz makes horde npcs run towards the alliance and not back towards the castle and safety i got no idea … blizz being blizz i guess…
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I love this sentence. Civilian casualties happen. Like, that’s not a tornado or a thunderstorm. There’s a difference between casualties happening and being inflicted on someone on purpose.
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You know, it’s a wonder Vol’jin didn’t change the blood oath to the Horde instead the Warchief to avoid another Garrosh from being able to politicise all military matters after SoO
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“She’s killing her own people” is probably a big give away.
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I also doubt that Alliance soldiers have Horns or wear Horde symbols on their shields.
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The main deal here is that Baine & Saurfang disagree with the cruel and calculative behaviour of Sylvanas, the leader of the Horde.
To be honest, I dont see them protesting about the war - instead they protest about Sylvanas’ methods of performing the war. No faction leader talks / talked about peace and healing Azeroth instead.
What are they offended about? The blight, especially when used against their own troops too, killing Malfurion in a 2v1 situation (because it is natural on the battlefield to only fight 1v1…), burning the tree killing innocents, performing brain wash of Derek.
How do they react to Sylvanas’ actions?
- Saurfang betrays Sylvanas sparing Malfurion, creating a domino that is threatening his own faction, because after killing 100000 alliance / undead / demons he couldn’t kill one more person outside an honourable 1v1.
Then he disagrees with her openly and goes full emo and tries to suicide and then surrender to the alliance.
With the aid of Anduin, he escapes and does not come back to the horde. - Baine was angry about Sylvanas letting Saurfang go emo. Then when horde was ‘loosing’ he wanted to end the war and make peace (!). When Sylvanas did not accept his proposal and he learned about Derek, he went and killed innocent soldiers and turned him over to Jaina (horde’s biggest foe)
So there are some questions now:*
- Does Baine make sense?
He did what he did, but when all race leaders were gathered, he didnt say a word to them! He could have grasped the opportunity to explain what happened and what he did to all of them. It was a perfect opportunity, all of them gathered without Sylvanas and Nathanos.
If he admitted what he did to them, when Sylvanas came it would be a whole different story.
But no, he kept it a secret from his allies! What did he expect Sylvanas to do? Fail to figure out who did it? What were Sylvanas’ options when she found out? Pat them in the back? Really Baine, are you that stupid?
Instead of trying to unify the other race leaders against Sylvanas’ practices, he creates a schism resulting in Zelling’s death (one more soul traded for Derek).
Note down, that if he managed to keep it a secret, then the horde race leaders would know there is a traitor amongst them, but not know who. Wow, very nice… - How did the other faction leaders react?
Well, they did not like Baine’s imprisonment mostly, because it declares an active schism inside the Horde. They also did not like brainwashing a forsaken (nor the burning of the tree by some). In a war with so many casualties (even a king died!), severing the Horde over one forsaken is a bit too much in my eyes.
So what is the true reaction of the race leaders? Silence…Of course, Baine’s stupidity trying (and failing of course) keeping it a secret had them surprised. Still, no protest, nothing.
What could Sylvanas do if the race leaders protested at that point? Would she imprison or kill Talanji for instance? Imprison Lorthemar or Rokkan? Did she afford to ignore them after what Baine and Saurfang did?
It would be really easy to hold her accountable for her actions and remind her she is not the Horde, just the leader of it. The race leaders just remain mute, as they have been the whole expansion apart for the emo lot of them.
Horde race leaders are just weak and self-centered. Sylvanas is nothing more than they let her be. She is cruel and uses any means necessary in her arsenal - something we really knew in advance. She does not like humans nor does she believe there can be peace. Of course, we knew that in advance.
She is left to do her thing, without any coordinated opposition, so why would we expect something different? Why does she betray the Horde being what we knew she is, what we expected her to be? She didn’t ask for the leadership, she was given it. The race leaders just fall short of protecting her and the Horde from wrong decisions - in fact they make things worse forcing her into bad calls.
Note: look what happened in the Alliance - Tyrande went in Anduin’s face in front of everyone and told him to get lost and she went to do her thing. Other race leaders followed her. Anduin didn’t even get a choice to deny them. Sylvanas is not like Anduin, but she has much greater pressure at this point.
Off-topic: can tauren or any race be raised as forsaken? We see for example nightelves, but we can’t play them for some reason.
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Some great points right there. But I think the main difference between Anduin and Sylvanas is strength and experience. While Anduin means well he lacks the confidence. As a young adolecent how would you react if the strongest night elf that lived 10000(?) years tells you to get lost.
Sylvanas on the other hand has strength, she knows how and when to tighten and loosen the leash on her subjects. She has always been mysterious and used questionable methods at best. The only difference where others have failed she succeeds. Mostly because alot of Alliance leaders are to strong to take on in single combat was the previous Horde led by thrall/garrosh unsuccessful.
Sylvanas her blight is the Horde’s answer to deal with a god infused night elf/archmage turning everyone into ice cubes.
Also name me one war that does not have civilian casualties.
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One of the latest cinematics lines is: Baine: “We wage war while the Earthmother dies.”
Lor’themar does mention after Baine’s arrest that anyone acting contrary to Sylvanas would put their respective people in danger
"I cannot fault Baine’s heart, even if his actions were drastic. Through this act of defiance, he exposed a schism in the Horde that has been growing since the attack on Teldrassil.
I fear that by openly opposing Sylvanas, he may have put his own people at risk. As mine would be, were I to side with him.
These are perilous times. We must be cautious… and deliberate."
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Collateral damage is one thing, being callous about it is another
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Dwarven heritage helmet says hello
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My peaceful ways are too much for the Mag’har and their warlike culture. Between their 20 soldiers, they will be able to defeat the combined Horde-Alliance forces.
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