Baine Rescue Cinematic


#225

I’m not entirely sure what the point is you’re trying to make. Yes, they die change some things because the fans were upset with how the Night Elves were portrayed, but the changes were very minimal and didn’t really affect the writing. It just made it more dramatic and gave it another flavour.

I myself was thinking about the livestream with that cinematic dude and someone else, but I’m not sure if it’s actually there. But I know for certain that the writers did say they didn’t really take feedback from the community into account.

As for this point, and the similar ones you made - BfA is a clear example of feedback neglected. The Alliance fans were already upset with the fact that they were mostly sidekicks for the Horde story since Cata and MoP, and Horde fans are not happy with the fact that the Horde identity is constantly changed and twisted, because of all the identity crises the Horde has been through.

The exact same thing is happening in BfA. Alliance? Jogging along with Horde drama. The Horde? Helping evil Warchief with his ridiculous plans, only to go through an identity crisis later on.

The same happened in MoP, and that wasn’t well received. Blizzard knows that fans are upset with the fact that it’s all about heroes. Blizzard knows fans want more depth. Blizzard knows that fans don’t want the SoO plot repeated. They have this feedback, yet they ignore it to make the same mistakes they made back then.


#226

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Good one.

I don’t believe you. I think there’s as much chance of Thunder Bluff being destroyed as there is of Silvermoon.

Oh, I get it. Not that the bar is set very high with all the roast beef comments people make. Baine is exactly what the Horde needs and deserves. No one else could bring shattered peoples together and strangely enough, Blizzard seem to agree with me for a change.


#227

I mean, obviously. Taurajo was a very important hunting camp, whereas Teldrassil was just a useless tree. Of course Taurajo’s destruction was more tragic and horrifying that the geno… err, mass murder of the Night Elves.


(Blunderhoof) #228

Allright.

So Teldrassil burning was mostly because of the shock value, to show us the war is on for real this time. But let’s be honest, how relevant is it after that? There is one Warfront. And as far as lore goes, it’s got nothing on the loss of Lordaeron city, because let’s be real here, some tree that was planted and grown over a few years doesn’t not compare with the historical seat of the Alliance command from WC 2 to the events of WC 3, and going on to WoW with Sylvanas and the Forsaken making it their home, it really does not have the same lore value, note that I’ms saying nothing about sentimental values here, wich is the angle you seem to be arguing from.

However ;
Tyrande is still Tyrande, she vowed revenge and became the Night Warrior, no matter what some Blizz employees may have said about it, her story just developed and branched out, but she is still the leader the Night Elves look up too, and rightfully so, she did not abandon them after all and became the Night Warrior(However cheesy as it was).

Same goes for Malfurion, if anything, he’s no longer neutral and fully supportive of his people(let’s see how long that lasts though). Actually the whole Night Elf race just received a whole righteous boatload of anger and rage to truck on against the Horde, wich could mean several interresting possibilities for future stories.

The Darnassus problem is technically an easy fix, really. Give them a new fancy capitol and everything is allright, basicly.

Bottom line is, Teldrassil could not have burned and everything could’ve still went as it did, it’s impact on the overal story was not that much, nor did it add anything substantial.

Taurajo on the other hand, was one of Blizzard’s attempts to give the Shiny Alliance some grey streaks in Cataclysm, together with several other questlines in the Southern barrens, I mean, let’s be real here, if Blizzard wanted different, they could’ve just as easily had the Alliance soldiers march straight on through to Durotar, it was Garrosh that started that war(for good "Grey’ reasons, I may add), not the Tauren people.

So Taurajo got burned, but Blizzard backpedaled in the same go, it was whitewashed, the Commanding general was basicly a good chump that really didn’t mean to harm anyone(dumbass used convicted conscripts to pull off his operation, but w/e).

The Great Gate was besieged shortly after, but really, that questline was just held dead in the water, weren’t even any defenders on the wall for example, so yeah, again nothing done with that, even though it could;'ve been the tauren’s time to get some action, to solidify their place in the Horde against an unjust Alliance invasion.

And the worst part, unlike Tyrande mentioned above, Baine did…absolutly nothing, nada, didn’t even show up or mention anything…aside from the Book ; in which he just /shrugs it off, dashed all hopes for him ever being something remotely likable and respectable as far as faction leaders go, Baine clearly didn’t give two hoots about his people, and punishes those that wanted to fight back.

Clearly he saw the bigger picture right? Well, maybe Tyrande did too, since she supposedly had her revenge, but that’s…different? No see, Baine has been an unlikable character ever since and a large segment of the player base(not going into wether it’s a minority or majority, it is however a large group) hasn’t liked this character ever since, and it has only gotten worse over time, no matter how much people clamor about allot of people not giving two shtis about the story, this one was Always a given, he is unliked ever since Cataclysm, wich was supposed to be his time to shine.

So Taurajo’s aftermath basicly has left a very bad taste with allot of people ever since, it only served to worsen the Tauren as a race as slowly but surely they’re now all being depicted as Baine’s sheep, and if they’re not, they’re obviously EVUL!, That’s the narrative we’ve been left with since Cataclysm, a weak leader that goes out of his way to sabotage the Horde, versus Tyrande, the Night Warrior.

SO yes, Taurajo is worse from a story/ writing angle. And wether or not Thunder Bluff actually burns is irrelevant, it’s how it’s being handled that actually matters and so far it basicly falls flat on it’s face from the start, so no hope there,so far.

Oh and let’s see what General Hawthorne’s reasoning was to remove Taurajo ;

Smithing Facility.
Used to train Horde troops.
Con: Significant civilian population.

Darnassus?
Smithing facilities - Check.
Used to train Alliance troops - Check.
Con: Significant Civilian population - Check.

Seems it is technically the same deal on that part too, aside from it not being attacked out of nowhere, unsuspected.


(Araphant) #229

Probably pretty relevant, as the entire race is now apparently at the brink of extinction. Also, your look at Darnassus lacks some rather relevant information.


(Blunderhoof) #230

Reports apparantly vary on that.

And since they’re still up for suicide missions and all over the place, I really don’t think it’s that relevant.

The orcs were near extinction.
The tauren were near extinction.
the gnomes were near extinction.
The trolls were near extinction.
The blood elves were near extinction.
And so on…
I mean, did it hamper anything there or am I missing something?


(Araphant) #231

The lore offered is pretty clear, unless you wish to imply that they put Tyrande lamenting how there are so few night elves left to…accent the opposite conclusion?

I must also mention that the entire war of thorns was put in such a manner that it painted the night elves as absolute idiots.

Not to mention that the night elves are one of the two races that took such a hit in-game, with the possible exception of the Mag’har. All of your other examples are basically ancient history compared to WOW.

There is a world of difference between opting to play a race near extinction, and suddenly becoming one over night (hah, I am so funny), because Blizzard felt like it.


(Blunderhoof) #232

The lore about those other races is also pretty clear…or are you denying that?

Not to mention that the entire war of thorns was put in such a manner that it painted the night elves as absolute idiots.

So wait….are you saying the writing is bad?? I also don’t agree it’s that bad, I mean yeah, sending your whole fleet away while there is a Horde army in the Barrens is pretty reckless, but other than that, it wasn’t That bad.

man you keep adding stuff…

Not to mention that the night elves are one of the two races that took such a hit in-game, with the possible exception of the Mag’har. All of your other examples are basically ancient history compared to WOW.

How is it being ‘history’ relevant? This is a non argument, how many years have passed since WC3 and now, really enough to suddenly boom the numbers?? What with all the World Ending threats and all and people dieing left and right.

There is a world of difference between opting to play a race near extinction, and suddenly becoming one over night (hah, I am so funny), because Blizzard felt like it.

Again…I find this a non argument, how does that matter? You opted to play a Human because it was the most numerous on Azeroth then?

You seem to be argumenting that population numbers now matter in WoW…in the past people used to argue the opposite, which one is it?


(Araphant) #233

Its not reckless, its borderline-idiotic. The night elves and the Horde always warred over Ashenvale, since the arrival of the Orcs. We have a massive Horde army passing two inches from it. What do the night elves do? Leave the garrison under-manned. That’s a premise worthy of a “we didn’t bring gas-masks to the Blight Capital” comparison.

Sorry, hah, I am a skater brain.

I am not disputing your argument, I am merely saying that a vague hope for the future is not enough to bail the people out of the crap which they are feeling now.

Further more, when we speak about lore, I must insist on this. Someone who rolled a blood elf in Burning Crusade, for instance, knew he was picking a survivor of a devastated race.

Someone who rolled a night elf is currently in the same position, without making such a choice, and it feels really bad.

To underline it, I am not saying you are wrong in your claims, merely offering my own perspective on the issue.


(Blunderhoof) #234

Okay…I’ll admit, I was going to go with something more akin to what you wrote, I was just trying to be nice! Yes, it was some really crappy writing that made no sense, I do agree, However I was also thinking further along the line, going into Darkshore and the battle /Warfront there, I don’t think the Night Elves came of that bad, but that’s just my opinion, I mean, really…I’m comparing this with stuff like the Great Gate of Mulgore being under siege…and it’s unmanned.

No, but if the past is anything to go by, one or two expansions and a nice shiny capitol will fix that problem, I’d think?
Tauren however have been stuck with the same shjit narrative and ‘lack of respectable leadership’ since Cataclysm, that was the initial point I was trying to makein my comparison, and I honestly believe that’s why Taurajo is worse, for the Night Elf player things can get beter actually exciting with this new story branch. For tauren…well, we seem to be the 'pacifistic hippies that want everyone to get along ’ now that Pandaren are out of the cool zone, and I doubt this Thunder Bluff burning scenario(if it ever comes to pass) will make any sense or have any interresting development for the race coming from it, other than the Tauren race just becoming even more alienated from the Horde and any interresting Warstories.

Okay, I can admit I didn’t quite think about it that way, as a Horde player most races have been or are in that position, I guess I never really thought about it being such a big deal for others. Gameplay wise it has never been an issue, wich I suppose is for the best in the end, but lorewise, I suppose I agree it should on one hand be a bigger deal than it currently shows and it is for some it already is.


(Uruk) #235

I didn’t want to get involved in this but I can’t ignore this:

No offense, but this is a seriously flawed statement to put it nicely. Teldrassil wasn’t just Darnassus. It was an entire ZONE full of small settlements WITH Darnassus, which most people conveniently seem to forget.

Calling these two tragedies the same would be equal to equalizing the loss of a small settlement/camp in Alaska with the loss of New York STATE along with New York City lol.

From the story perspective, they might have some similarities in importance, but regarding the scope of tragedy, they can’t possibly be compared in any sane way.


(Blunderhoof) #236

Maybe you should’ve read the full post then, it wasn’t about the scope, it was about the writing as I pointed out.
The similarities were in the points made by General Hawthorne, when describing his target, and they check out on both places, prove me wrong?

The (only) difference is in the scope, agreed. Not the point I made though, I thought that was quite clear.

Perhaps that’s why Baine didn’t mention it, because of the similarities…according to his logic, Teldrassil was indeed a valid military target.


(Uruk) #237

Obviously it wasn’t clear. But thanks for clearing it up. I still don’t fully agree, but let’s leave it at that.


#238

So, I just did the Baine rescue scenario and watched the cinematic and I’m well-confused?

Not only that I, the player, must help Jaina kill that Blood Elf guy who wants revenge for the Dalaran purge- which, to be honest, didn’t sit exactly well with me- no, now that we have freed Baine, Sylvanas is going to attack TB?

Why? The Tauren didn’t even raise a finger to free their Highchief, it was Saurfang, Thrall and Jaina/the Alliance?

Whatever would she gain by attacking the Tauren capital?
And who would aid her in doing so?

I’m sorry, but that just doesn’t make any sense to me. AT ALL.

And yes, I’ve read the whole thread but found no real answer to that question.
If that’s really what’s going to happen, the storytelling would definitely hit a new low, it just feels so forced and pointless…


(Blunderhoof) #239

I’m afraid that’s just because it really is forced and pointless, it kinda has been since the beginning, now it’s just painfully Obvious.


(Zarao) #240

Blizzard wants to hit the overkill with turning Sylvanas into the worst of the worst.
That’s why they’ll probably have her randomly throw a genocidal tantrum at the Tauren. Much like they had her randomly sending Thrall some assassins.

How else are we to hate her guts if she doesn’t attack the poor, soft Tauren people? Only the pandas would have a bigger impact. And Blizzard doesn’t give a shirt about pandas…so Tauren it is.


#241

The Shu’halo can defend ourselves perfectly fine, Mr. Troll. Something that will become very clear when you attempt to break down the Mulgore Great Gates! Now about the potential for Tauren Blight stockpiles…will be quite the disaster if the horde were to use Blight deliberately against each other. Again. Third time’s the charm if you believe Sylvanas was behind the order for Wrathgate and not just planning, R&D, testing, stockpiling, dismissing the Warchief’s ban on it, flagrant future use of it, killing her own troops with it…


#242

hmm. I was still hoping for an explanation for the assassin thing that would make more sense, but now it looks like it was really meant to be just that- another totally stupid plan having the exact opposite effect in the end.

And now TB?
Like it wasn’t that practically everyone hates her already.
Makes perfect sense to antagonize your last remaining allies when you’re terrified of dying and worried about the extinction of your people…

So we are to believe there never was such thing as a “great plan” behind this war in the first place, and she’s really just a murderous lunatic that must be done away with. Pathetic.

Nope, no. I refuse to buy that. Come on Blizz, it’s got to be more than that.


#243

With Blizzard a cigar really is just a cigar.


(Blunderhoof) #244

Just wait untill Blizzard releases the next Saurfang cgi…

In this one Saurfang rushes over to the Frostwolf clan grounds only to find Sylvanas already there and Drek’thar, in his wheel chair…
Feel free to fill in the dots. But the people MUST be swayed!