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1097

So with your example, you think the following happens all the time:

I start a group for any given key:
I invite 2 dps and 1 healer.

It takes 10 minutes to find a tank i wanna take due to his experience.
And your “logic” is the following:

That i would replace the first 2 dps i invited constantly by better scored players because it took 10 minutes to find a tank i would like to play with?

You cant be serious right? Sure it happens people switch out a player here and there.
But you make it sound like it is this ever changing group till the tank is found.

Or that groups are taking roles in demand with lower experience just to get on with the dungeon.

And no, a solo queue system wont work, group finder does that up to HC dungeons.

And guess what? Healers and tanks: 2-3 minute queue times.
Dps: 15-20 minutes of queue time.

This isnt an rio issue.
Dps roles are simply played more.
The responsebility from tanks and healers simply is bigger and doesnt fit everyone.

And above all, playing tank or healer in M+ isnt exactly a thankful job because there is always a comment on your route / healing / dispels or pulltime. But that is a discussion for a whole other thread. (I have always tanked and still do for the last 15 years.)

I am starting to think you dont even have a clue what you are talking about.

Shouldnt you be making a feedback / suggestion thread about the solo queue system you imagined and put your efforts in that?

Seeing you are fine using our BS rio system in the current lfg tool?

/thread

1 Like
1098

So you think because a matchmaking system works in games where players compete against other players of similar skill levels and where the player performance can actually be somehow measured, it will work in a game mode where 5 players go against a predetermined, static set bots with hard-coded scaling based on the dungeon level, and where one player, the tank, is as crucial to success as the healer and the 3 DPS combined?

I assumed as much, I just wanted you to say it yourself. I’m beginning to think you may not know as much about matchmaking systems as you claim.

I don’t think explaining such system is in the scope of this entire forum, because it can never work as you think it would, simply becase in M+, you aren’t competing with anyone, personal performance cannot be measured as there’s way too many variables to it and depending on your role, you need to rely way too much on the other players. In the games you mentioned, you at least have a chance to carry if someone isn’t pulling their weight, assuming you’re good enough.

And if you mean win/loss would be just timed/untimed, then there would be extreme gaps in skill between tanks, DPS and healer players, becuse a single DPS can easily be boosted by performing a simple rotation, while the tank cannot be carried since he needs to know virtually everything there is to know… the route, what the mobs do, how much he can afford to pull, what he can afford to pull with what… i could go on, but in short the tank has to know so much more than your regular DPS player who is just there to smash the meters.

1099

Lol, even better when the tank stands in stuff and goes “wtf healer?” when they take damage that’s simply unhealable and die.

1100

It doesn’t work in OW at least. I’m almost master and I encounter people that are far below my skill level on a daily basis. They simply got to the rating because they got carried hard enough by others.

1101

Yes, both the replacing of DPS in favor of better ones happens, and the leeway on RIO score / whatever given to the tank is bigger than that for DPS. You might think it doesn’t happen often, but the effect is again cumulative, it snowballs over time.

Heroic queue lacks the key part - ratings. A rated solo queue will behave differently. Surprised you didn’t notice the difference.

I did multiple times. :- )

1102

Ow yeah, there are many factors to what i wrote. Just didnt wanna list them all.

But you are 100% right.

But the one i like most: healers / dps pulling more sometimes than i can handle at that given moment, and then go: omg tank, why u die?

1103

Yes, automatic matchmaking works in PVE as well as in PVP. The challenge of measuring performance is actually higher in PVP than in PVE, just so you know.

1104

Well yes, it’s problematic even in those games. That only amplifies how stupid that would be in M+. I can see massive differences in players skill even in high plat/low diamond. Granted there are smurf, but that’s not always the case. Imagine tank players with this system, sweating about every detail of their run, only to be matched with some monkey who just go smash and then blame him when he dies after they use zero interupts or CC while doing less DPS than him.

1105

It doesn’t work though. LoL matchmaking is horrible. As is dota’s and OW’s.

1106

I just love this anecdotal “experience” that gets paraded as evidence that the system doesn’t work. Take an aggregate, then talk. How many matches did you win / lose because your teammates were higher / lower than you, as a percentage? Did you measure? For all the talk of “unskilled people whining about RIO” what we have here is someone who whines about the supposedly “not working” rating system, which, surprise, is actually working, you just don’t like losing 50% of the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing works. You constantly get lower-skilled teammates and higher-skilled enemies. We know.

1107

Dude, this guy:

Was close to master. Like, how? That’s like how I’d expect a bronze player to play. The system clearly doesn’t work when people like this can get close to master.

1108

It is kind of funny that you wrote this, because it is basically what you did the entire day lol

4 Likes
1109

Wow, a clip that totally proves that the system “doesn’t work”. Did you hear the word “aggregate”? Is it even your clip?

1110

Yes? That’s my channel, lol. You can even see clips I’ve recorded from SL beta on it.

It doesn’t when people that bad can get to that rating.

1111

Excuse me, what? How can you, honestly and with a straight face, say that measuring individual performance in M+ is in any way easier than in PvP competitive games? It’s not easy in the games you mentioned, sure, but at least it’s possible, unlike the extremely complicated monstrosity that is this game…

It’s actually impressive how confident and arogant you are, considering you obviously have no clue about M+ above the absolute, mandatory basics.

1 Like
1112

Cool, at least that part is in place. Now what about the percentages for your games that you won thanks to teammates better than you and lost thanks to teammates worse than you? What are they?

1113

Because PVP is more varied, LOL.

1114

I literally noticed the difference and listed it.
By telling you the tank / healer ratio is skewed vs how many people will dps.

And your ratings wont change a thing. Furthermore they will even make it worse.

If your queue system uses my ranking to queue me with a team, it will use the rating as a guideline ± 100 rating.

My rating is 1000.
So the pool of people to match me with is between (example) 900 - 1100.

What happens is that everyone above or under said rating is left out.
Which is creating this “set amount” of groups for that time of queueing.

This wont affect queue times? For every tank of 1000 rating, we still need 3 dps with the same rating and a healer with the same rating.

Already know there is a shortage of tanks and i also sometimes just tank lower keys for fun.

I already see major issues with your rating system, and it did take me mere minutes.

So please explain, how your rating system will make sure my solo queue is instant as dps or tank.
How it will solve the simple fact of the amount of tanks and healers being played etc.

Tanks and healers have been in demand and outnumbered by dps ever since vanilla.
Which isnt weird with only 1 per 5 man group and only 2 per any given raid size.

And furthermore how this whole “rio scoring system” ranks tanks higher because i can do the same keys on any given char and still get the same score.

I still get declined as tank even tho my 2100ish score and experience of all dungeons is 15 timed or higher.

Yet, a group for a UR 12 still declined me. Which is fine and i perfectly understand they had a better option which suited them better and that could be regarding rio score / tank class / tank utility etc.

Yet here you are, still debating rio has to be removed somehow.

1115

How am I supposed to know that? I’ve played the game for over 1500 hours, I don’t keep track of every single game, lmao. I can clearly tell when someone is far worse than the people at the same rating and those people are many.

1116

Since you don’t know them, you don’t know how well the system works. So stop stating it doesn’t work. “lmao”