Well, that’s another point I’ve raised before with such systems. If it’s automated based on the act of leaving alone, pugs joining push keys will be getting banned left and right despite leaving due to a deplete being a victimless crime in that setting 90% of the time.
Ultimately there’s just too many legitimate reasons for leaving a run before it’s finished to have a system like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if people now start to troll in order to force someone else to leave first, since we have no idea what constitutes a ban.
I completely get that people want to finish their keys from 2s to 10s no matter how long it takes for loot/crests/vault. Absolutely valid to aim for completion there and it’s also valid to see it as toxic if somebody leaves before that (at least if it was announced/dicussed before they key started).
But starting from 11s and up, it just doesn’t really make any sense to be mad at people for leaving the key before completing it out of time.
I agree. At least in anything above 10s.
That’s another thing, yes. What’s triggering the system? Is it reports? Is it just the act of leaving? Do actual human beings review the case?
There’s just too many variables for this to actually really work.
I mean LoL has a similar problem with “intentional griefing” because… how do you prove a player is actually griefing on purpose and not just having a really bad day or is just bad in general? Even more so… how’s an automated system supposed to differntiate?
Honeslty, the whole discussion is getting ridiculous at this point, as all of of these hypotheses revolve entirely around this being an automated system, despite having zero evidence of that actually being the case and obviously not the slightest clue about database adminiustration and just how simple this task actually is…
Youre all just wildly assuming that there is not a single person at blizzard competent enough to write a 2 line script to parse a database, do that 3 or 4 times, and compare the hits to each other…
So, in your collective opinion, who TF is even coding the game if people can´t even apply the most rudimentary basics of DBA? Because actual coding is orders of magnitude more complicated…
So yeah, have fun going off the deep end and getting your collective panties in a massive wad about an automated system that doesn´t exist, is not implemented in game, but will now be your new favorite boogeyman for the forseeable future
Wouldn’t say “no matter how long it takes”, although there are people who genuinely believe this. It’s not very difficult to tell that a run will be a disaster throughout and will take significantly longer than the timer would suggest.
If it’s marked as “completion” in the listing, then yes, I’d agree that leaving is bad, but there’s also a lot of people who think everyone should stay in their run no matter what despite not marking the listing with “completion”.
The strange thing is that people complain about having limited free time to play, but then also expect others to dedicate a significant portion of their own free time to their disaster runs, which I find toxic and selfish in itself.
In general I’ve seen quite a lot of entitlement in the “ban leavers” crowd, expecting to receive all the respect but not offering any themselves.
The “punish people for not kicking” crowd is no different… WHen teh dust settles, it´s all just “Punish people for playing the game they also pay for exactly the way I want to see it be played because I pay for it.” They´re both delusional.
I think that this is an opportunity to wonder about how much is a problem of the M+ design.
A raid in comparison allows breaks and changing people yet is more time efficient cause you still get something without a full clear.
Ofc it wont but it will be start. Up to now leavers can leave pretty much for “leader having a bad transmog” without absolutely no consequences. They got nothing to lose.
While any system can be abused, its already an improvement. Even faking “a dc” but not being allowed to play that char to maintain the “dc” is an improvement over leaving and joining next key like nothing happened.
So will the system magically fix all problems? Nop. But making the leavers to have “something to lose”…even if its a mild nuisance is already an improvement in my books.
You’re not wrong there, but then if one side now gets sanctions, it needs to be equal and so should the other side.
Either both or none, simple as that, because thats only fair. A leaver will brick a key, and so will someone not pressing their buttons, in the end they are the same and should be treated the same.
And btw, my vote goes to none, because i dont believe underperforming players should get punished more than by someone leaving, but that also means leavers shouldnt get punished when they decided their group isnt capable of doing the content they are attempting.
Whats going to happen now is people will just stay in keys with underperforming players and perform even lower than them until someone else leaves.
Either that or they dont care and leave anyways, Alt+F4, turn off the internet, take your pick.
Banning players for leaving keys, unless it can be proven that said players joined a key with the intention to grief it from the start, is a very bad idea.
Ofc, Blizzard can also just make very easy and simple solution: reducing one’s M+ rating if he leaves, no matter if it is an internet problem, power outage or other irl emergencies. If you negatively impact the run and other players, you should assume the consequence.
If one repeatedly does so, he will have 0 or even negative rating that absolutely nobody will invite them to any keys. That’s practically banning them from M+ community.
But as I said, this simple mechanical solutions will not solve human behavior. And we can already know that toxic players will find other ways.
Instead of leaving a key, now he will just sit afk, or just does 10k dps every 3 mins. How does the system judge if he is intentionally sabotage the run, or just a bad dps?
Or, instead of leaving a key, now he just repeatedly pulls all the mobs and kill the group. How does the system knows if he is accidentally pulling or intentionally?
These behaviors are on par if not even worse than leaving a dungeon, and how these should be punished? If all those should be punished equally, then everything will be suspected to be punished one day, till nobody dare to run them anymore.
The first 2 days of the MDI would reduce M+ runs by 75% because most tanks would get banned within hours of the MDI starting for overpulling and leaving.
By teh end of the week there would be about 10-20% of m+ runs still taking place: the top 1% who usually only play in premades, all teh other premades, and the 5 groups that were blessed with finding a Pug tank that doesn’t watch the MDI and /or understands that MDI gameplay is not normal.
Would be nice to understand how this system actually works.
If a key is going badly and everyone agrees it’s a deplete and would rather reset and go again, but one of those members, genuinely has to go and leaves the group after mentioning that. Does the system targets them too?
In terms of clarity in this system couldn’t we have something along the lines of a “mark as depleted” function? So the key owner or group leader can start a vote, just how the “vote kick” system works. If the majority agree that “yeah the kick is lost and essentially non of us wish to carry on” then it stops the key, everyone can leave without fear of getting suspended for no reason.
