Benthic gear: Is it catch-up system, or raiding BiS?


(Madorin) #41

Mythic+ does this a lot more then Benthic gear ever could.


#42

It was told to us by the devs that nazjatar will be timeless isle 2.0


(Tahra) #43

Have a quote? A link?
But if they did; that can be interpreted in different ways. That doesn’t mean Benthic is supposed to be catch up gear. If it’s catch up gear, they did a poor job because it requires a lot of time (and I’d say effort) to get a fully upgraded piece. Even just 1. Let alone a whole set.


#44

Time maybe if you are unlucky with rolling socket + effect. However the people defending this system prolly dont give a damn about rolling the perfect piece. Effort? Flying between WQs that you can sleep through? Turn off the warmode and you truly have no challenge whatsoever cuz dodging a gank can actually be somewhat challenging.

I could understand implementing a system for a lengthy questchain that will give you one piece of gear that will be bis for the whole tier. Not 3-5 pieces from WQs.


#45

I doesn’t even have to better for just raiding… Yesterday I got my weekly M+ chest, 440 belt… That’s a 15 ilvl upgrade for me! (DH, crit + haste)

Except… my 425 benthic belt with socket simmed higher by about 90dps…

Like, what?! How is this even a thing? Why is my 440 item with similar stats so much worse? It was only 50 versatility from a socket that somehow is stronger than 54 agility…

Why is my primary stat so weak compared to a secondary? The entire ilvl system is broken right now. So many times I’ve had to ditch an item (with the right stats) because of things like this.


(Madorin) #46

That is wrong actually. Mechagon as a zone was designed to be like timeless isle 2.0


(Madorin) #47

As far as I know sims take the Benthic effects always into account. Outside of the raid and Nazjatar your 440 belt should be better than the Benthic one. Unless you really need versatility that much.


#48

I ran it twice for that specific purpose, both times without nazjatar active, because I couldn’t believe it myself. The difference was a bit less crit, a bit more haste (more than the crit lost), which shouldn’t matter as the stat weight for DH for haste and crit is the same. The biggest difference was no socket, which meant I’d lose 50 versatility. Due to the +15 ilvl (M+10 warforged), I’d get about 54 agility, and this is about 90 dps less.

Agility (primary stat) is a lot worse than Versatility for a DH, which makes ilvl upgrades virtually useless if the lower level provides versatility…

For reference, the 120 agility socket does about 90dps more than 50 versatility, so I’m assuming that 50 vers is about 100 agility for me atm.


(Madorin) #49

Ah I see. Yeah we are getting to the point in the expansion where ilvl will start to matter less and less as secondaries get stronger. Blizzard has stated they will make some changes to stat calculation in 8.2.5 which apparently will let the new +100 primary gems be just as strong as our current +120 versions. Maybe they will make some changes to secondaries as well.


(Mukuro) #50

In Raidbots there is the option to simulate one way or the other. The default is being in Nazjatar though.


(Uruk) #51

In short, benthic gear is both the catch-up system and the alternative gearing system to raids and M+ for people who don’t do either, with few pieces with socket being desirable in raids.


(Navysilan) #52

Alternative doesn’t mean 475 ilvl raid gloves are equal to 425 ilvl benthic gloves.
Same power as normal or heroic gear? Ok.
Better than mythic items? It shouldn’t work like that, as it’s making half of the bosses useless.


#53

but for a catchup system its way too tedious. i cant think about anyone who will not out “item” lvl these items until they have all these pearls required to upgrade them to something basic like 410.

nor can i think of anyone who is a true casual (=not having a lot of time/ <10h week) to invest his rare time to grind pearls.

nor should it be an alternative gearing to content where you actually have to perform while this requires 0 braincell and just too much freetime to grind (+ on alts to buy tokens for gem&bonus combination)


(Uruk) #54

I’m not saying this is a good system, as that’s another can of worms, but it was presented and advertised as such.


#55

sorry didnt mean to personally reply to you or disagree :wink:


#56

Again, I’d want to see an exact quote. I do not believe anyone at Blizzard ever said that Mechagon was “designed to be like” Timeless. They may have said something like it has things in common with, but I absolutely do not believe “designed to be like”. Maybe from commentators; not from developers.

And if they did design it to be “like” Timeless, they missed the mark so hard it’s incredible.


(Madorin) #57

Yes they didn’t say that exactly, Ion said something along the lines of including elements of their best zones like timeless isles.

Here is the quote: “Mechagon is a whole different story. Mechagon doesn’t really have traditional world quests. If Nazjatar is the successor to Argus and Tanaan, Mechagon is a successor to Timeless Isle. That’s the model, the cloth from which it’s cut. That is much more of an exploration sandbox.”


#58

Thank you.

But Ion shaded that one pretty bad.

An “exploration sandbox” it is NOT. Emphatically not.


(Tahra) #59

Now you’re using another term which is highly subjective; challenge.
What is hard for one person, might be easy for another.

Doing WQs for many months is definitely effort as far as I am concerned. :man_shrugging:

Effort =/= difficulty.

Well, you may certainly think that. I think it’s fine. Getting a complete set of Benthic gear, with normal play, will probably take most, if not all, of this tier’s lifespan.


#60

Take away the socket RNG, and the absurd imbalance in the procs, improve the spread of stats, and let the procs work everywhere, and I would be 100% with you on that.