Benthic gear: Is it catch-up system, or raiding BiS?


(Sylvare) #61

I acknowledge your arguement as truth but will also raise with a “still better then the benthic grind tho”


(Healtings) #62

I was tired when I wrote that, so let me be more clear. Benthic gear is most unfriendly to those without alts for the reasons I mentioned. Progression on your main should never be tied to how many alts you have.

And crafted gear requires raiding, yes, but it’s not locked into difficulty. This is absolutely fine - there’s nothing wrong with having a slot or two which your profession can fill.

But, when you add benthic on top of that, it leaves few slots to actually find significant upgrades for, from pve content on its hardest difficulties.

And, you may well think that with ‘time and effort’ it’s okay that world content is stronger than mythic raiding gear - but anyone who raids mythic and actually wants to experience a progression curve and have tangible rewards does not. And, there really isn’t a time/effort requirement so much as logging on to alts and sending tokens to mains (and then playing the benthic lottery). Many players had all their socketed benthic by the opening of raid - gear that beats mythic gear, before the raid had even opened on mythic difficulty. Sorry, but that’s not good item design.


(Valkiá) #63

Yes. Raid gear should be the best gear in a raid.
Just like PvP gear should be the best gear, for PvP’ing.
WQ gear could be nearly as good but not quite as good for either thing.

But that’d simply make far too much sense for the current ‘plan’ Blizzard seems to have for the game.


#64

Yes absolutely. But that doesnt mean the reward should be equal or even better for the easier task.


#65

With the benthic lottery there was definitely a ball dropped. It should have been nerfed at the start. There is no way that nerfing it now, will help at any way whatsoever. It will only make more people annoyed.


#66

I stopped tracking manapearls I farmed after 1500. I still have only one benthic piece with socket. It’s an amazing feeling to grind tedious world quests for 2 months after EP opened and still missing 2 benthic pieces.


(Verdill) #67

They can solve it by making all boots pieces from raid having this crit dmg passive. Everyone wins. Do it the same way with other benthic pieces. Casuals happy, raiders happy.


(Tahra) #68

Then those people should just ignore the other ways imo. Yes, some Benthic pieces might be better inside the raid or for a specific encounter, but who cares? You don’t NEED it.

I don’t have a min-max mindset, so this kind of behaviour just seems alien to me. If you want regular progression curve, it’s right here in the game. Just don’t do that other content which you don’t need. :man_shrugging:

That’s players acting a certain way. I don’t want to say ‘abusing the system’, but… ‘using it to maximize time/effort/cost’, which takes away some of the fun that could be had. That’s not an item problem imo.


(Madorin) #69

Not specifically locked but you will need a ridiculous amount of time to be able to craft the 440 pieces if you are not going into higher difficulties.

I do want that. Furthermore progression curve through the raid? That doesn’t exist anymore mate. Because of once again Mythic+ and war/titanforges is how you gear now. There are so many problems with gearing now and Benthic gear is on the bottom of that list.

It took me over 2500 pearls to get 3 of those items. If someone managed to farm that or even more in two weeks they absolutely deserved that advantage.


(Souldefíler) #70

You’d all be back in a week. Pack it in.


(Athiyk) #71

Just putting it out here that the benthic pieces people have problems with are not situational. The boots and the bracers are flat out better than anything else that drops from Mythic for most of the DPS specs. For others the other pieces are better than 455 socketed pieces.

One of my guildies got a 455 pair of boots with better stat distribution for him than the socketed benthic pair he has. The 3% crit damage is just so strong that even the 455 socketed boots were a 200 DPS downgrade for him. I genuinely felt sorry for him, but atleast he has a piece he can use in M+ that is not a benthic piece.


#72

What even is this comment? You actually have to contribute as a mythic raider. By gimping yourself willingly you are out. Simple as that.

Honestly for a person not raiding HC/mythic there is no reason whatsoever to defend the benthic pieces being this OP. And now im thinking about the pieces that are valued higher than 455 gear. They dont make any difference on your gameplay but ruins alot for the raiders.


(Lyonidus) #73

Not necessarilly, benthic pieces have a guaranteed socket if you’ve done it right, and as we all know, sockets are very valuable at the moment.

Also the argument that you’re gonna be using mythic EP loot for the next tier is bad because now you have to save a piece for like 5-6 months before it actually becomes useful and that’s not very good design in my opinion.

I just think it would’ve been better if the actual gear from EP gave bonuses instead, people who don’t care about raiding probably wouldn’t care about the bonuses as they would still get 425 ilvl pieces from benthic.


(Healtings) #74

It’s not ‘behaviour’, you DO need the damage. You’ve only got to reach Ashvane on mythic and you experience a very sharp dps check which requires a minimum of around 620k raid dps - which works out at individual dps around 40k. Even without the sockets, the benthic gear outperforms 445 gear.

You can’t say ‘you don’t NEED it’ when you don’t understand the requirements placed upon mythic raiders to min-max, respectfully. I appreciate that you don’t get it or can’t relate to it, but that’s because you don’t need to do it. Min-maxing isn’t the optional thing you think it is in mythic, it’s either do it or you’re going to a) not be able to kill a boss and hit a wall or b) the boss takes significantly longer until the raid finally has the overall requirements, but hit a) on a boss later in the instance because too much time in the patch has elapsed without gear from the bosses that you haven’t killed yet.


(Healtings) #75

I’m not necessarily saying that people had them all fully upgraded, but they beat mythic gear even at 415 ilvl. Even for those who only got maybe one of their pieces, it’s a significant dps increase.

People with one or two alts can easily farm in excess of 100 manapearls per day (there’s usually one daily (approx. 5 pearls), at least one WQ (approx. 5 pearls) and then at least 6 pearls from nazj followers, and that’s before you factor in the pvp event/commanders, rares, algans, etc.

And, there is still a progression curve within mythic (referring to your comment about mythic +, lets pretend benthic doesn’t exist for a second). You’re not going to get 445 titanforges every time you run a mythic dungeon. Sure, running high mythic+ keys defeats normal/heroic progression for a lot of slots, but then mythic 10s are comparable with heroic encounters so it’s totally fine to be honest. The main problem progression wise, is of course, the lack of set bonuses. But, there’s plenty of stuff to pick up in mythic, were it not for the fact that benthic now occupies 3-4 slots on top of all the other stuff that already occupies slots (crafted gear; silly trinkets like Highborne compendium; lets not forget our neck occupies a slot by itself).


#76

I’ll just chip in here to say that as someone who plays WPvP as my favourite content, Benthic gear is pretty important for good gameplay. Since the WPvP scaling was reduced, I need to have good DPS too. As I don’t raid or run high Mythic keys, Benthic gives me that. WPvPers shouldn’t have to raid to be competitive in Warmode.


(Tahra) #77

Oh no no. I would be fine with them nerfing the special powers and such.
I was more defending it against people who say ‘you should never get heroic lvl items from questing’, which I disagree with if it requires the effort that benthic gear does.


#78

Got a socket on all my benthic pieces, so no need to raid for me. Gonna do some pvp though and i need mythic plus gear for that.


#79

There’s a huge issue here:

You gamble for it.

EA< I want the BIS gloves for feral druid, the nori something, bnut I want it socketed because otherwise its not as usefull to what I fcurrently have.

On top of that, you have to grind mana pearls for that. Meaning that you have to have 250ish manapearls for that just to upgrade said item you want. On top of that you’re gonna need alot of manapearls just to get the roll, aside from upgrading. So you’re very lucky if you get it first time.

But you’re not garanteed it.

The Nori whatever it is called, doesnt drop that often. Let alone, if it doesnt drop wit ha socket, you’re not going to outdps a regular mythic 5+ item in same slot.

So, you, for starters, have to be very lucky with your roll on the gloves.


#80

Those benthic items are only valuable in eternal palace or nazjatar, so 90% of your play time they will be less powerfull than these 455 items. Unless you spend 90% of your time in nazjatar and 10% in raids.