Blizzard correctly acknowledged that Mythic+ cannibalized Heroic raiding in Shadowlands. So why did they decide to have it cannibalize Mythic raiding as well?

Community General Discussion
41

Sure you get more chances at 421 gear, but only 4x items drop per boss and you have to share it with 20 other people. Every boss that drops 421 items or higher is also a tier boss, so once people get their tier items 50% of the drops will always be useless. It’s not a lot of items.

You can upgrade M+ gear to 415 ilvl which is mythic ilvl, how is that bad quality loot? Not to mention you can grind concentrated primal focus which gives you 418 ilvl loot.

Depends on the player. +16s are very easy so they probably do those and craft 418 items.

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42

You aren’t getting 405 items from +11 keys though, youre getting 392 items at the end.

You are need +12 to get 405 from your vault, and thats only 1 item per week, which raiders also have access to.

So this is like comparing apples to oranges really, because you aren’t getting 405 items at the end of M+ runs until 19s and 20s.

43

Considering I explained the misunderstanding in the paragraph that followed, and you went on to argue that the perspective of yourself and other gear hunters is ‘right’ and the perspective of myself and all the others who do content because we enjoy it is ‘wrong’, you’ve made it clear that you’re not interested in any opinion other than your own.

If all you want is to hear your own views reflected back to you, I suggest you hire yourself an echo chamber rather than posting on forums.

44

I must’ve misunderstood then. I thought you meant I remembered incorrectly.

I didn’t say you’re wrong for doing things because you enjoy them. I just explained to you how people care about gear in wow and I gave you several examples. I disagreed completely with your opinion that players don’t care about gear when they clearly do. At least the vocal part of the player base.

If I didn’t want to hear other perspectives I wouldn’t have made this post.

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45

And AV +20 is harder than a SBG/CoS…yet both reward the same reward.
If you want to go through this rabbit hole, then why stop there?

46

Well this is your choice; it’s an activity bottleneck, not a roadblock imposed by the game. For those who are minded to run M+ anyway because it’s an activity they do for the sake of the activity, sparks simply don’t drop often enough to keep up with them and there doesn’t seem to be anything they can do about it.

I… don’t see this in my experience. My guild’s mythic team is currently working on their 4th boss. About half of them have done +20s other than SBG. The others are mostly in the 17-18 range.

Maybe it changes at the later bosses, but so far, my experience is that bosses 1-3 are easier than, say, a +20 Halls of Valor on tyrannical week.

If you really don’t have any days where you’d have 2-3 hours to play continuously then I sympathise.

But in general, most people can find that, even when they have families. And the actual raid night is usually more compatible with, for example, young children, because if you need to step away for moment that’s fine, just try to wait until the end of this particular pull. Most fights are over in 5-6 mins, it’s not often that people have emergencies so severe they have to be immediately handled.

Meanwhile in M+, you sit down and you commit to the timer. You don’t get up for the next 30-40 minutes unless you want to brick the key. I personally find this more demanding because there’s no breaks in concentration for that period, but to each their own.

Once you have it on farm, it becomes pretty solid reward for time. You’ll get a new piece of gear for about 50% of the team by clearing the first 3 bosses, which can be done inside an hour once you have it down. This is far better than M+ where after a point the only rewards are in your vault.

It’s completely valid to just not like raiding and not want to do it, but for all the non-organisers in the team, raiding is mostly about making sure you clear your schedule for a few hours on a particular day, and doing the basic prep of consumables and tactics guides at any time during the week.

Raid leaders will sweat it hard, but that’s why they’re generally the people with plenty of time. You don’t have to raid lead if that doesn’t work for you :smile_cat:

47

Well, in my first post i already agreed bliz needs to look at the infusions, so not sure why you bring it up again.

And 415s aren’t garbage, but as i pointed out, i will not compare raid to M+ with uncapped valor, it has just been added as a “oh well, season is over anyway” and as i said, bliz should do something similar for raid.

So the farmable item is 405 max… and you can upgrade 1 of those to 415 every other week.

Edit.
Also its not fair to say 415 is farmable, since it is locked behind achievement/rating that 9% of characters have.

48

Even before they uncapped valor, you had thousands of valor which allowed you to upgrade a lot of items. Combined with the 418 crafted gear and 421 items from your vault, you’d have ilvl 415 or higher in every slot long before they uncapped valor.

Only issue M+ gearing had early on was tier, which I think is dumb. Catalyst should’ve been open week one.

What rabbit hole? I’m comparing Mythic+ to Raiding.

49

This is just not true. We just got our hands on higher items because of uncapped valor. My ilvl got up from 403 to now 409.
The people with the ilvls you talk about are mythic raiders.

50

If you were 403 before then you just weren’t doing +20s.

51

No, basically only mythic raiders were doing +20’s. We maybe would have gotten there when M+ only was shadowmoon or CoS (we were at 18). But we can not choose our keys.

When you check the cutoffs on raiderio a very low amount of players is doing +20’s.

52

No, the valor was not remotely enough for that… trinkets cost 400 valor per level to upgrade… from 405 to 415 is 3 upgrades, thats 1200 valor… just for a trinket… the cap was 7500 before it was removed…

53

What? Majority of people doing +20s early on were M+ers.

54

M+ers who do the mythic raid.

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55

I think his point exactly, do you know how many people can do 20s with no gear? Barely any… my first 20 was done at the end of week 3, and it took 3hours and 45min… gotta love AA, while I’m no Gingi, i am not bad at M+.

The absoloute majority of people had to use valor on 395 items ect, to just move into the next key levels, so there was not remotely enough valor to farm 415 gear, nvm that most people cant even get the rating where that is possible.

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56

You seem to fail these days have to be the same days every week. And a attendence requirement. That isnt realistically family / work friendly.

If i gotta do overtime.
If my childs ill.

I gotta go, i cant attend and in a mythic raid team that cant realistically happen.

I find it seems weirdly alot of raid guilds raid on fridays, somethinf i defjntly cant do

57

Yeah this. And it is guarenteed you get vaults filled with slots of items you upgraded with valor :sweat_smile: So you throw that used valor away.

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58

I find that very strange as most mythic guilds do wed/sun with tuesday if needed.

59

Or that, as I did, you get that ruby life pools trinket 3 times in total :smiley:

60

I had friends who exclusively do M+ time +20 keys, so not just m+ers who raid. Lots of people timed +20 keys long before they stepped foot in the mythic raid.

We had several vaults before they uncapped it so that’s multiple 415+ items. Several sparks for the 418 items and then the upgraded gear to 415. Depending on rng ofc, you’d have very good gear by just doing m+ early on. So yeah, probably not 415+ on every slot I was wrong on that. But you’d have it in most slots with a few 402/405 items.

I’m not talking about the average player here. I’m comparing Mythic raiding to Mythic+, so i’m obviously talkinga bout high end players in both categories. Players who are good enough for the content and how the gearing disparity impacts the content. The average player is irrelevant in this topic.

If people struggle in +20s now after all these nerfs at 405 ilvl then they’re clearly not relevant for this topic. No amount of gear is going to help those players as it’s just a skill issue at this point, not a gear issue.