Outlaw rogue is fine in M+ no doubt. But pure melee dps class behind tons of other classes like mage , boomy and hunter. I m not defending we need to be OP like the current situation. What i want is my class only deals damage. Can’t tank, can’t heal you see? I have no other option. And if a Rogue does not bring humangous damage and i know the M+ dungeons are nearly don’t require our precious AOE Cloak Stealth. It makes useless. Yes there is or are Rogues in Proffessional Play but this is not an E-Sport game, this is MMORP like i played since 2005. If i cant tank&heal i gotta do damage with a reasonable amount. I don’t judge people their ranks or progression but you lack sight of Rogue gameplay.
Rogues are Litterally in every top M+ Run currently, litterally… first 2 pages ALL have rogues in there and its been growing… Rogues are decent in M+ Outlaw Specifically yes… but all the same its got more representation then like 90% of the other classes/speccs in M+.
no, this is my Reroll from my DK. the people i group with etc etc Want a Rogue and as the guy who plays Melee Classes it made the most sense i rolled rogue… but ye i’ve not had too much experience playing rogue so im learning it.
Also preach has stated also “anti melee meta” has become a meme and in ALOT of areas isnt actually true there was even a talk with Fin who went melee this tier and Yeah its Sludgefist only. When all the top players only complain about ONE Boss for being anti-meta… i aint gonna say they’re wrong in favor of a bunch of Forum goers.
We’re talking playersa who fought these bosses Prior their nerfs… they felt those fights at their most extreme.
RIO gives me the stats of the highest runs… i can see where rogue is, Preach is also Considering going Rogue for Mythic Raiding lmfao. and given hes a Competitive Mythic raider it says enough to where he beleives things are going.
this was mainly what i was getting at, which is why i respecificed as my first post wasnt 100% Clear.
tbh Hunters scaling sooooooo badly i’ll imagione Season 2 Hunters will be below us in all honesty… they’re dropping into a M+ Nicht also.
We’re kinda getting better as we go, and they’re getting worse.
I do agree. Rogues are solely built on damage, espically since the pruning and we lost Quite a few tools Which did actually give us some Utility we offered. I played Sub Rogue During Season 1 WoD and i remmeber the Class being considered much stronger.
I’ve also played since this game came out in Vanilla, although this account i think is created in MoP???.. I lost my Account when going back to MoP. because I lost all the discs to my account… which is the same time as thankfully we could start doing digital.
and yeah my Rogue knowledge is Pretty limited.
I played it for Deathwing in Cata.
I played it for Highmaul in WoD
and i played it uptoo a +23 (i think) in M+ during BFA.
So i’ve defintly not had a Loong service as a Rogue, however these days wit hthe quantity of top level streamers u can approach for information, RIO Stats being plastered… Raid DPS breakdowns and more… i dont think its really valid to try and throw Experience at a player.
you can find out the rough ability of classes by simply checking their DPS Against others against each boss… then ujse RIO to see what classes are used at the top end.
but i think saying a “class is fine” isnt really a far stretch out… its basically saying the class is capable, and it is, We arent Meta. we arent nessercarily Wanted and we arent the top of the role. but we’re fine. We’re above mid pack DPS in all mythic raids, and we’re leading M+.
Does that mean im saying rogues Dont need anything?.. no, but i come from a Survival hunter in Legion… i’ve experienced the ABSOLUTE worse, so sure Something like where rogue is currently prolly doesnt seem that bad to me.
Rogue Covenants need serious help
i could also argue quiter a few of its legendaries could use some help
Assassination and Sub both need some Major buffs for defint.
And i want Smoke bomb etc etc back.
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Outlaw not good in m+. Do you watch any mythich plus rogue player in pushing key. Other classes hitting double damage maybe more. Look at mythic plus class population. Rogues have lowest population.
What i was meant for fine is Spot filler. Not like a wanted class as Boomy or Fmage ofc. I admit it Blizz definetly ignoring Rogue Class. So i quit like 3 weeks ago and not planing return.
I am playing casual until my game time is over i am wating new world. Blizzard is no longer the same. No more different from ordinary money-hungry companies. I think Blizzard could not give the players what they wanted during the epidemic process. Everything will be different after the epidemic for Blizzard.
Remove target cap and bring back my raden wep corruptions
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Just reroll like every other rogue has started playing their alts as main.
I pay money every mounth for this game i must able to play the class i want. I have been waiting for two months for class tunings. It’s not my fault that I’m still playing the worst class. It’s not my job to fix it. Bliz developers do not treat their classes equally because most developers play druid and any developers not play since legion. Rogues didn’t take any good changes during bfa. it is not different for shadowlands. You can say “assa take a of ability damage persantage buff” but assasin rogue don’t need damage persentage buff assa need big rework. Also all rogue specs and all rogue covenants need big reworks(maybe some soulbinds to). For all that a lot of classes take rework for obsolescent covanants for 9.0.5 pach(although they already have good covenants) . Rogues still don’t take any rework.
This guy is funny! He has no clue what is going on! Doubt he ever played a rogue especially now in SL!
Keep trash talking, i am entertained!!! Share your wisdom my friend, i want to learn!!
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So u are not even doing PVP but u say they need pvp nerf, seems legit. Git gud scrub
This Rondakungfu guy is a troll.
Rondakungfus own words haha
and then he says
I know it is hilarious xD so dumb haha
Triggered little rogue, you still cant get over the facts i gave you when you whine about your class that is clearly shining in 2/3 aspects of the game and still talk about me even though i choose to ignore your clueless posts?
Im pretty sure somewhere in 2021 you will get over it, be sure yourself
you dont even need that with all the burst you have, are you kidding?
no no it’s not that. You’re just really funny, I was just wrong to take you seriously at first. Now I know everything you write is horse 
Why is there so much deflection after Croweley has specifically provided research and outlined it so easily that anybody (even druids and monks) can understand the data?
Is it not feasible to say that Rogues, as a pure DPS class, are not performing as well as other pure DPS classes, or even secondary/tertiary DPS specialisations from classes who have the comfort of choice? I’d even argue that this is the same for PvP and that rogues’ burst often doesn’t outperform other burst windows, or even a simple defensive cooldown, which renders Rogues’ burst window effectively useless.
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I think the simple Tldr, is rogue needs to be brought up from the bottom with the other Hunter specs so it’s atleast not a static Loss. It doesn’t need to be in the top, but it should be competitive DPS wise as should the other hunter specs in raiding. Elitism prevents any other Hunter spec or rogue from raiding pretty much right now, and people are pretty touchy on outlaw since they want perfect parses or top covenants. And while Outlaw is great again, with that mentality and the statistics class proving it a invaluable class, it sort of… just kills two classes past one spec, and even then both specs of the classes are desired specifically with top damage. Though marksmans can parse easily since there isn’t really anything to upkeep or rng to rely on, so shrug. Would be nice if rogues were balanced out with the other Hunter specs to just not be a negative loss on dps, sure they won’t be the top without full meta gear, but that’s any indifferent class. But being so bottom tier, that picking a healer to do dps over them Is pretty much where it’s at. MW’s will literally out dps the bottom dps specs because of their healing legendary, it’s just…sad.
My point being is, rogues being the bottom line that certain healer classes can out dps them through dots or simple rotations is not good, beast master and survival have the treatment too. Outlaw is viable because with good rng it’ll always do high damage atleast either through celerity or RTB, where as Sub/sin either have their cds or their squishy noodling for 2 minutes without that super dps gain. Even though outlaw can be noodle dps too, it has the ability every 25ish seconds to reroll / get lucky and burst super high multiple times
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For you everybody that disagrees that Rog must push one button and does 1 000 000 dps and be top of the top in everything is troll.
When has rogue ever been this? Who has ever asked for that? Rogue has always been a very difficult dps rotation, far more abilities to use & use in good timing with energy/cd management. Compared to any other dps spec, hunter, mage, druid, which dont have any of these concepts.
People are so sour at getting owned by rogues in pvp because they dont know how to counter them (very easily) that they want them brought down to worst dps in the game and think thats fine. Hey a few guys are doing decent in their 3s team as a rogue, not like they are being carried by mages dps… xD. Nothing has changed about rogues stunning capability in pvp, well done you’ve noticed.
Ok now to talk about what we’re actually talking about in this thread. Rogues are extremely underpowered dps-wise in PvE. Outlaw rogue shows some uses in M+ as a middle of the pack dps. Brings shroud I suppose but ppl barely use shroud when u can use invis pots. Sub & Assassination are bottom and 2nd bottom dps. The two specs which are apparently made for single target dps, worse than any other dps spec (even the specs doing triple our aoe dps).
We bring absolutely 0 utility now and do the worst melee dps in the game. Why would you ever bring a rogue? When you could have AMZ DK, Warrior buff, Monk debuff, Demon Hunter darkness & mage buff… no need to mention the obvious ranged dps picks.
Its clear to anyone sensible that isn’t just looking at the 5 players in the top 3v3 playing rogue, that rogue is extremely weak at the moment and desperately needs boosting to be playable in the future.
I am talking from my own perspective now, but i really agree with that rogues needs a big buff to even get into raids / m+ later in the expansion! If you look what classes brings, you have DK with AMS, DH with magic dmg taken, Druid with br, off healing, innervate, Hunters with mobility/surviveability and cc, Mages with int buff and food, monk with physical dmg taken, Paladin with mobility, auras and off heal, Priest with Stam buff / PI, Shaman with manatide totem and windfurytotem (depends on spec), Warlock with sumstone and healthstones, and lastly warrior with battleshout and rallying cry.
Can you tell me why would you want to bring a rogue to a raid or m+? It’s because the toolkit? Shroud got nerfed after BFA and that’s good, Tricks, hunter have md and does more dmg and have easier to cc targets than us rogues. The only thing that brings us rogues atm to raids and m+ isn’t that we are op, it’s just that people are looking at rogues like they have always been good and have bad memorys from past expansions from losing to a rogue in dps race, to die from a ganking rogue or just can’t handle a rogue in arena. We give nothing unique atm and we are lower than most of other specs atm, so once again WHY bring a rogue when you have better choices?
But i will agree that STEALTH is op! And i love it!
I really agree with that rogues needs a big buff to even get into raids / m+ later in the expansion! Just take Limit Maximums video about melee meta for example and see what he says about rogue or other classes than dk or monk! I dare you to do it! And if you look what classes brings, you have DK with AMS, DH with magic dmg taken, Druid with br, off healing, innervate, Hunters with mobility/surviveability and cc, Mages with int buff and food, monk with physical dmg taken, Paladin with mobility, auras and off heal, Priest with Stam buff / PI, Shaman with manatide totem and windfurytotem (depends on spec), Warlock with sumstone, br and healthstones, and lastly warrior with battleshout and rallying cry.
Can you tell me why would you want to bring a rogue to a raid or m+? It’s because the toolkit? Shroud got nerfed after BFA and that’s good, Tricks, hunter have md and does more dmg and have easier to cc targets than us rogues. The only thing that brings us rogues atm to raids and m+ isn’t that we are op, it’s just that people are looking at rogues like they have always been good and have bad memorys from past expansions from losing to a rogue in dps race, to die from a ganking rogue or just can’t handle a rogue in arena. We give nothing unique atm and we are lower than most of other specs atm, so once again WHY bring a rogue when you have better choices?
But i will agree that STEALTH is op! And i love it!
So sad. People still dont know how to deal with stealth this far into the game. Its the general plebs that cry about getting ganked in the open world that get us nerfed. Around 1% of the game is played in the open world, arguably its completely meaningless going to the open world. So why the game would be balanced around people crying in warmode is beyond me? You can choose not to pvp in the open world, do that instead of crying to blizzard to get other classes nerfed. Now 2 specs we have do dead bottom dps, and one middle-bottom. Remove stealth if you want, I dont barely use it in raids/m+, just give me a better dps rotation.