Just speaking of utility here I think it should be noted that rogues bring very similar utlity to M+ as hunters, with the exception for being ranged. I.e. melee mobility, survivability/soak, CC, misdirect and interrupts. Rogues also have better stuns and interrupts than hunters… then again, hunters have binding shot which is OP ^^ Monks are also similar to rogues in terms of CC, interrupts and stuns, however they bring circle of peace and melee buff which is much more powerful than any rogue kit right now.
Other than shroud, rogues have tricks of the trade, blind, cheapshot/kidney, interrupt, soothe (shiv with numbing poison) and CoS are not bad and should not be underplayed, because the utility kit is still powerful. The difference is that rogues have a comparatively worse utility kit than many other classes and combined with lower dps things are not looking bright for rogues.
(I didn’t mention sap here, because it is rarely used. Normally important CC is in combat CC like blind/poly/trap)
Point is, rogues in M+ aren’t as bad when compared to rogues in raiding. Rogue raid utility is garbage and I agree with you there.
well the main problem is, there are already way too many melee classes and each of them outperforms the rogue in raid. garrosh was the last boss i remember where u actually needed a rogue. legion had alot soak mechanics where rogue was good like guldan and kj, but nowdays like every 2nd class has immunitys. so with each other melee specc outdpsing rogue and rogue adds nothing to the raid theres just no point to take any at all. outlaw doing fine in m+, but ppl still rather pick monks, dks or mages mostly. also outlaw is like the most boring spec of all, decend constant dmg, but 0 burst.
so with the rogue kit already beeing underwhelming i dont know why they actually gave rogues the worst covenant abilitys of all the classes.
i also dont understand why snd aint a passive anymore on assassination.
it should be passive for all 3 speccs.
assa should get kings bane back, maybe even ss/eb as chooseable talents.
i just hope assa will be somewhat viable in raids after 0.5 since i honestly hate the outlaw playstyle.
Personally I don’t need dps buffs… I’m fine with being lower on the dps charts as long as we got some unique class utility that makes people think “I’m really happy we got a Rogue in this raid”.
Give us one of the following:
Defensive raid CD - Example: smoke bomb reduce damage taken by x %.
Raid buff - Example: Rogue poisons increase crit damage on the target from all sources by x %
We don’t need both like DH and Warriors. We just need one.
As I said - if rogs are a dead class for raids it is not a problem really. They are still best melee for m+ and one of the best in pvp. If this class remains not needed for raids and nobody wants them there that will be more like balance.
You again? You jump all the time in Rogue forums and trying to bury class. Your ideas / opinions proves you don’t know anything about the Rogue class including it’s history and current situation.
If you are looking for best Melee check WW Monk and Unh DKS. Best melee is not coming with a single stun ability or raw damage. It is coming with both conjuction of damage + utility such as AMZ , Combat Ress , Damage taken increase etc.
Why won’t you leave Rogue forums unless you can bring reasonable words here? Thanks we won’t miss you again.
It is a public forum and I comment. Sorry if you are not familiar with those things. Moreover, Rogs are currently the best melee DPS in m+. As I said if you are not competitive in raids that’s really not an issue.
For the rest like Lyken creature and the others, its an alt but that’s too much for rog players to realize due to some limitation hahaha.
When I open raider io - I see 5 rogs in top 15 for m+. When I check pvp I see 4 rogs in top 10. How this can be considered bad. In the raids, rogs are not needed as mages or warlocks are! However, in a guild you will do enough damage and they will always consider you.
In BFA, there were runs with two, even three rogs. That was insane. Most of plebs here want the same, to be special, to be accepted automatically. Welcome to balance. I played boomie then and now ofc. They did more AOE than me, and in tyranical weeks they just changed to Assa and were top ST. That was not acceptable.
Finally, if you are not happy with the class state (as I said to DHs) just play something else.
Dude, its a public forum. I know it is too much for you to understand. What I play has nothing to do with the discussion. I know arguments are not your strong side but still. If I come on warlock what shall you say ? Talking to me or Ronda about the characters we post just shows how limited and pathetic from the argument perspective people here are.
And just to point that rogs are not as bad as you said. The russian guild in top 10 actually did their progress with rog:
Rogue is the only class in the game that brings nothing unique to raiding. We should have either smoke bomb as a defensive raid CD or make our poisons apply a raid-wide crit buff.
DH and Warriors brings both a defensive raid CDs and raid buffs. Rogue brings nothing. Having good personal CDs is nothing compared to something that can reduce damage taken or increase damage done for the ENTIRE raid.
That is correct and I can agree on that. I am not unreasonable like most players here (in rog forum). I can agree that other two specs need a bit more buff (despite that they are not as bad as plebs here say).
What I do not agree is that you shall have those things (new utility or some other raid tools) without a price. Rogs must be nerf in both PVP and M+ then. otherwise, we will have all three rog specs competitive in all three aspects of the game. That wont be fair by far.
And last but not least, do not look at warriors and mages. Blizzard clearly stated that these two classes will be on the top forever. Especially mages - all three specs are super strong. The only reason why others are not seeing a lot of play is that fire is superior by far than every other spec and class in the game.
Mate, do you even play rogue to comment? You seem clueless on what the state of this class is. Go away already.
Rogues are neglected and now have become the worst class in the game—bad cov abilities, bad damage already, little to none utility and arguably the worst scaling. No point playing a rogue right now, and likely for the rest of the expansion.
I start levelling rog mate. I am so bored of my two mains that I will level this rog for 2/3 weeks and I am sure once I got gear I will do decent dps. The only disadvantage is that its not like DH above. For a week I level it up - switch to tank and all is super good.
Have you ever even played Rogue? Looks like not. You don’t bring anything viable to this conversation other than pointing out “Outlaw isn’t that bad, just switch”.
Look, Chuma or Shuva or whatever you are a creature. It is not my fault that you are not reading. What I brought is statistics:
Rogs were part of world 1st competition in one of the guilds.
Outlaw is not bad, it’s great. The top DPS in raider io is the outlaw. Maybe playstyle is horrible, but that’s very subjective. Even Chuma will notice that (debatable though).
Rog is very good in PVP.
The problem here is that all statistics are ignored as everywhere else in this forum, and people just insist for buffs. Pretty much all classes apart of mage have one valuable spec. This is how blizzard balance their games.
Even Chuma as I can see played HC raid. If you are good, you will be accepted everywhere. The main problem with raids comes from the fact that Rog is DPS. The competition of DPS is too high for pugging.
What I can say is that monks need a nerf not other melee buffs.
