Look, Skin rash or Trash or whatever you are.
Never said anything about not being able to join raiding groups since I occasionally raid with my guild.
Stop assuming things and putting your words into my mouth.
PS: you clearly don’t know anything about the state of rogue in SL.
Assassination is bad in all content.
Subtlety is bad in M+ and raiding. It’s okay in PvP if you play RMP or play against inexperienced players that you can one-shot.
Outlaw does okay damage in raids but brings nothing else and can therefore not compete with other classes. In very high end M+ Outlaw is excellent, but it because of CC and not dps. Outlaws job is to control mobs while Mages, Hunter, Boomkins etc burst them down. But it requires a very good player to utilize the CC capabilities of Outlaw correctly. And it also requires organized groups. Outlaw is not that great for an average player that just want to do dps in pugs.
Look Chuma: Asian, EU, Americans - they all are players. Btw, the top rog is from S. I do not care about people. I am sticking to the discussion.
About the world first 1 - the Russian guild, as well as the Chinese one, were 8th and 10th I think. They both have rogs and those are pretty valid arguments.
The only thing that you are missing is just rog to be top DPS on some boss of CN. Well, we all will survive without that. A lot of classes do not top any of the bosses.
The main point of the author of the topic was - rog is not in the top dps in the raids. Well, true 
but thats super ok.
Have you even read what I said? Competition was 2 month ago and game is progressing aswell as stats and everything but u can’t see that as level 5 key andy.
Show us your balls and let us see your main. Hiding behind an alt and trashtalk, everybody can do that.
I wasn’t even complaining about not being TOP dps in the whole raid but u again put those words into my mouth.
Sorry but argumenting with you is pointless since u have no clue.
Then do not. And my main, alt, class do not have anything with the discussion. What I tried to show you (Chuma, I will try to outline it):
About the Assa true, it is a dead spec. But same goes for Havoc, demonology, and many others - Survival hunter, holy priest.
By the way, if you try to hurt me about my 5th alt. Check this alt did in BFA mythic raiding and higher keys than your main Wont work because I know what I can do. Plus that I reach 60 level last week and already am doing high content. Funny guy.
Finally, they will fix the specs at some point. Maybe next patch with second legendary. But they will rotate them (to some extend). Same was in BFA. I guess outlaw will be the leading spec for the whole expansion but the rest will get better in time.
Since you are checking me u should know I started playing 5 months before SL launched so ur argument is pretty pointless. Yeah, reaching 60 and gearing your alt in SL ain’t that hard bro. And if you mean level 6 key as high content, ok. Obviously u play only PVE which is way easier content, so.
Rogues not good in m+. Look at the class population in m+. Good class cannot be the least played class. Current top teams not best teams. Peoples not pushing m+. When was the last time you saw Chinese teams at the top of the list? Where is drjay, seliathan, gingi, fragnance, speedoflife, shakib, j.b, ramfam etc. Best teams don’t play m+ becasue this season is sick.
Yeah, rogues blow in m+. I wonder why world first +26 key has an outlaw rogue in it? Anyone knows? Where are all those amazing fury warriors and retri paladins?
A few top guilds used Rogues because of the players. Not because of the class. Some top players have mained Rogues for years and will therefore perform the best on Rogues. But that’s a special case. Rogue is objectively horrible for raiding compared to other classes. Mainly because Rogues don’t have anything that affects the entire raid group. Having good personal defensive CD can’t compare to having a raid defensive CD.
Please understand that for a lot of people raiding is still the main content of the game. So it really sucks when your entire class is basically dead for mythic progression. It’s not okay.
So Troll Rachs here too? This guy must be jobless. Don’t feed him. He / she does not even have single clue about Rogue class. Ignore the troll discuss your topic.
You might not be unreasonable, but it’s statements like that, which undermine anything you might say. Nobody is gonna listen to someone coming off that arrogant and dismissive. You could make the best arguments ever, but when you also use every opportunity to be rude, it’s just bad form, and it removes any and all credibility you might’ve had.
If your arguments hold merit, let them do the talking. Anything extra is just unnecessarily rude.
Just look at his char profile. He has no idea what he is talking about regarding M+ and raiding. All he do is read crap from rio and pretend clever guy…Just ignore…
Rogues are part of general balance problems where classes with top single target dps appears to be topping also aoe. There are so many problems with rogues itslef such as capped aoe, no burst , rng strongly determining output, subpar single target on outlaw, absolutely boring leggos, convenants abilities with abysmal impact on dps, 0 raid utility, lack of variety of raiding gear… On the top of that you have CN design which clearly favours ranged classes.
I always liked sub spec for pve and started as one but its just not worth it. Outlaw with all its flaws beat it in dps anyway. Two other specs are simply on dead end.
Ok mister. Half of the argument about me. Now let me reply to you: look at BFA when I actually played with that char. Where are you, where am I on raids, and M+? And even then that was my alt. Raids, you never even jump over the pug bosses…
Here, everybody that does not agree with your statements is troll.
Finally, I always liked Demonology but yea, it is not worth it. So I play affl that I dislike when I have to be competitive. In other words, it is not only you and always has been like that. In BFA I heard non stop - wanna play Affl warlock not destro…
And something else, Rogs will be even stronger now in m+ since MM is getting hardly nerf: Wild spirits no longer proccing off SST: 5% DPS nerf + around 10% AOE.
I really hope they will change it. I don’t need Rogue to do a lot of dps. I just want something that makes people think “I’m happy we got one Rogue in the raid”.
I actually hope they will remove them all instead of changing it. I mean they can give you something like magic zone or darkness. But it is getting a bit too much. Every class brings some auras + abilities. They shall remove them all.
Trust me, no matter what they give you - some sort of legendary/covenant/or something new, at the end, some of those abilities will become stronger than others and some classes will be in the corner.
Everything that shall matter for raids is the dps and cc. Those auras like magic buffs/debuffs are tricky and kind of nasty. As I said easily some can become broken. Shroud in BFA is a very good example.
So your advice to an admittedly unbalanced class is to ‘play something else’?
Surely you can understand how that’s a problem.
Yes I agree. The best thing is if we could freely bring the classes we wanted without any restrictions.
Rachs:
YOU ARE NOT ROGUE
YOU ARE NOT RAIDING
YOU ARE NOT DOING M+
YOU ARE NOT DOING PVP
What makes you think that you have any valid arguments related to current situation of the rogues XD?
But besides all your general bullsht comments I am really happy you are here cause topics which would be already dead are alive and perhaps in a weird way having more open topics on rogues forum would help rogues case.
Just came in here again to say your wrong. Outlaw is top, keyword. Outlaw.
Also just to add onto it, it’s a toxic mentality to say because your good at one form of content you shouldn’t be at others. Well, then why are Boomkins currently so powerful they carry rbg’s, arenas, raids, and even in most m+‘s? Or why don’t we nerf havoc again, I’m sure you’d love that, remember BFA? It’s such a illogical opinion. Rogues are a slightly-skill based assassination class, they burst, they’re built to be squishy and annoying. We already have a LOT of flaws, and a lot of counters (DH, WL, Frost Mage, Warriors, Paladins bubble can ruin burst and hence be seen as one, Feral’s beat us in 1v1’s with thorns + bears if we can’t reset, oh and I don’t know, hunters flare, and monks parry and disable?) so to say it’s by far the strongest class constantly, god. There are things called specs, the class itself is garbage, the specs shine In their designed roles. Albeit sub was incredibly powerful (more then it should) it is not grounds to have a poor mentality. Otherwise say hello to the bm and sh hunters, two specs that have never shined pass BM shining now and then in some content. Should they suffer because MM is currently the top brain dead new dh? (Sorry no offense meant hunter players, lmao I can say that from maining one.)
Without a doubt rogue is so weak at the moment and this needs to be addressed ASAP or most rogue players gonna be gone by 9.1. No we wont simply ‘play another class’ we want to play rogue obviously thats why we picked it. I dont want to be a pirate shooting guns and rolling dices, I picked the assassin class, not pirate. So immediately outlaw isn’t an option for me. Subtetly is the only enjoyable spec in the game for me I’ve tried every other melee, but can’t get into them. I am playing sub for entire patch now just ignoring our nerfs and how far we drop to the bottom of the dps list, and hoping and crossing my fingers that one day blizz will boost us. But again and again we see other classes getting boosts despite already being top tier or mid tier (mages, hunters). Can consider my subscription gone if nothing changes soon.