Blizzard has certainly got more than just the 1.12 client, and aren’t limited to 1.12 version in testing. Even private servers are capable of replicating earlier patch elements, everything is well documented.
Class tuning and boss tuning go hand in hand, so by having untouched numbers they have already changed the tuning in effect. It’s not an exact science due to class comp but I feel like you’re using this argument for the sake of being difficult instead of for the greater goal of the discussion, when you boil it down they could increase all numbers by say 10% and you’d see a significant improvement overall, it’s not a complex problem.
Authentic experience is a term I’m using to say authentic numbers, not a subjective view of experience. We don’t have an authentic experience now because the numbers are off…
If a boss has 100 health and a player is doing 10 dps, the boss will die in 10 seconds. If we increase the player dps to 15 (without the player improving gear) the boss will die in 6.6 seconds. We didn’t change the boss health but the boss tuning changed considerably, if we increased the boss health 150 we would arrive back at 10 seconds.
When you boil it down it’s simple, a very simple problem to fix. You arrive at some expected averages relating to all output/input numbers and you tune accordingly, since Vanilla classes and bosses are also very simple it’s infinitely easier than tuning in more recent expansions.
Certainly? They always claimed they only have the 1.12 client, and that they don’t have backup from previous patches. Everything else is just speculation.
It’s nowhere as simple as you make it out to be here. Classes weren’t all buffed by the same amount. Raid compositions even less so. Depending on which raid comp you use, the gulf could be anywhere from 10% to 50% or more.
I’m not just trying to be difficult, I’m just showing you how complex things are, and why Blizz is better off leaving the game as it is rather than tune it in a way that will still leave most players unsatisfied, one way or the other.
I think the amount of players that want raids to be buffed in hp/damage simply to be like it was in 1.2/3 etc isnt that many compared to that simply want Classic, though I dont doubt you guys exist in a number.
I just dont think its needed, itemisation and the debuff slots was the mistakes but I can live with it
Leaving some players unsatisfied is inevitable, you should never use the idea of “why even bother” because you think you have to please everyone. It should be done for the greater good of the game in the broader sense, you can’t please everyone no matter what you do, futile.
I’ve a lot of experience in theorycrafting (one of my spreadsheets for TBC gets hundreds of users every day even now, years after I created it). It’s really a very simple problem to solve once you have some numbers on the table.
You’re focussing too much on outliers in your overview, outlier raid comps and classes do not need to be accounted for, we’re looking at a general average and the goal is improvement, not perfection. Improvement and getting closer to the original numbers (input/output) is very easy, because at this point just increasing numbers in general is an improvement, it only becomes difficult if you’re trying to fine tune it.
Since this is Vanilla/Classic we’re not trying to fine tune it to begin with, simply moving closer. Blizzard has 15 years experience tuning bosses, Mythic bosses are incredibly complex and tightly tuned, modern classes have much more potent skillsets, the game is orders of magnitude more difficult to tune in BFA than in Vanilla where everything is so simple and straightforward.
If I had a job at Blizzard I could fix this problem in weeks, and I have no experience outside of spreadsheets and theorycrafting, the problem just isn’t that deep.
He wiped allot of times, allot, we have 1.12 patch which makes MC as early raid easier then it was back then, also it is not meant to be impossible to complete MC you need to clear it countless times to get loot, it is not some impossible task, remember that doing Dungeons takes way longer in Classic then BFA.
It’s supposed to be impossible to complete if you enter it with 0 preperation and 8 healers. The fact that MC doesn’t hard require 12 healers due to lack of raid gear available just tells you everything you need to know about the tuning, and there’s no defending it…
rly bad pugs can do it with 8 healers, good guilds can do it with 5-6.
Good guilds are supposed to be forced to use a minimum of 10 at this stage, if tuning was correct. It’s ATLEAST 50% more forgiving than it should be in my opinion.
But on a serious note, according to the people that made the game, not some private server neckbeard in his moms basement, this is how the game is supposed to be, take it or leave it
Total agree, the fact that a handful of guilds completed Molten Core within the first week of release is lame. I was playing on Nostalrius as well, and it was more of a challenge there, which was much more entertaining than having a complete return of classic without adjustments to the encounters.
OP, I suggest you make some sort of petition such as through (change (dot) org) at least that gave some attention to bring classic back, so I think if it gets a lot of support Blizzard might actually consider it.
How about this, before you have done MC yourself and rest of Dungeons, you do not have right to post about how easy it is, it will solve 99% problems of content being easy.
Are you trying insinuate that Asmongold, a highly competent and experienced player is bad enough to disprove the idea that players are better now? Let’s not forget that people on world first videos in Nihilum were keyboard turning and clicking.
Asmongold has a lot of endgame Mythic boss kills pre-nerf, doesn’t he also have some high PVP ranks like Gladiator/GM? He might play like a buffoon on stream when he’s entertaining the kids but he’s obviously good at the game.
Back on the topic… There are a whole list of reasons that cause the game to be much easier than it should be now, private server players aren’t going to be unhappy with an improvement, improvement is what we need, a number balance to countertact the issues. Right now it’s the equivalent of doing a raid with the next tiers items and class buffs.
Well alright, maybe you should’ve kept up with the blue posts during Spring 2019 where Blizzard themselves had a long procedure of actually choosing the patch the game was going to be played on.
If you expected earlier than 1.12 then this is the wrong game for you, go to your private server
WHY THE NARATIVE CHANGE, THO?
Up until recently i recal seeing the general forum flodded with classic wanna be trolls, claiming that classic take skills, is harder and more imersive that retail.
I play this game since early 2005, i post on a character that have the achievements to prove so, and i can tell you for sure CLASSIC WOW was nothing about skill, immersion or comunity
Was everything about no life farming , nothing more. WOW was only hard back then in its BUGGED version, up until march 2005. And wasnt game design, was bugs that made it harder.
You dont pretend to tell me that frostbolt spam, auto attack 80% rotations or 1 -2 ability bosses took more skill that even world missions currently active in retail…
You guys have been proved that you were wearing rose tinted glasses, that THE VAST MAJORITY of those who commented and trolled general with their skilled classic never ever played it nor did they had any ideea what they were speaking of.
I had issues on Razorgore with my guild, easily solved by changing egg player, i had issues ON OTEHR RAIDS ALSO, BUT WE SOLVED THEM.
None, none of those raids took skill. Not even Naxx, once u got the gear and rep for it it was clear that it was just a gear check
Classic was a slog , slow experience, then again, the developers did not had the tools and means to develop games as they do nowadays
sorry to burst your bubble, we had bis lists back then also, we had loads of guides, class stacking, class guides, raid guides, farming guides, or do you think ppl were just MORONS?
dont speak of things you havent experienced
classic was just easy, way more easier end game than anything after it
You clearly had a different experience from me, then. Back when I played in 1.10 on Hakkar EU, 5-per-class raids were common, knowing the value of +healing was not, and I still remember our GM telling us how DM/PvP gear was generally better than other dungeons because it was NOT common knowledge outside expert players.
Yet we still managed to do MC with such a guild, even with as little as 26 ppl. That’s how MC was tuned, that’s the kind of knowledge it was tuned for, and I don’t see why it should change now just because people know better
