@Blizzard: introduce personal loot in classic (T)BC

Which part of “you’ve already lost this debate” did you fail to understand? Should I attempt to use less complex words for your tiny gnomish brain?

“The community” proved to be unable to fight this cancer, which is why Blizzard/Activision had to step in and force personal loot on everyone - and it was the single best improvement ever made to WoW.

See, here’s the problem with greedy selfish bastards like you. You think that this has to be about me. That I must want or need something, some piece of loot. I don’t. I’ve already got everything I wanted in terms of loot.

Do you really want to know what this is about? It’s about my friend - real life friend who also happened to play wow. He quit recently. Obviously that was unfortunate for me, so I asked him why. He plays at a different level, as in…“classic” really is “vanilla” for him (he never played wow before 2019). He plays a resto shaman, so eh.

He quit because he can’t improve his character. There’s nothing to do, as far as he’s concerned. So I pointed out that he could get lots of upgrades in various instances. To which he replied that he can’t, because:

  • he can’t get ZG enchants, because those are always reserved; as he is (or rather was) more of a casual player, he couldn’t go with the “guild ZG” - obviously they needed the idols for Naxx players who had some t3 leggings/circlets - and pugs either reserved or sold (gbid) idols. As a resto shaman, he wasn’t particularly good at farming, because, well, resto shamans, no comment on that.

  • he can’t even get t1/t2 upgrades, because everything good is reserved or sold (gbid again). Getting lokamir on a roll? Dream on.

  • mounts or bags never came up. Not once. I doubt he even knows there are mounts dropping in there.

Obviously for me that loot is laughable at best and as you pointed out, I don’t need loot after clearing Naxx. What the hell would I do with it, vendor it after I’ve replaced it with a random honored reputation blue in BC? . But that’s not the case for him. For him, lokamir would’ve been a huge upgrade over the ZG Venoxis dagger, for example. But he felt that he just couldn’t get any upgrade, because “everything” was either reserved or sold, so what’s the point?

I hadn’t been too interested in this until then, because, frankly, I didn’t care about t1-t2 loot anymore, hell, those items were so 2019, as it were. So I hadn’t even noticed it much. I started noticing it after he quit.

Having seen that, I’m saying that HE’S RIGHT. Short of switching to a more “hardcore” playstyle, there was no way for him to improve his gear. Everything IS either reserved or sold and unless he joins a Naxx guild (for which he’s definitely not prepared - either in gold required for consumables or experience; which is why he was more of a “social” type of member). I’ll return to the “guild” part in a few moments. This is pathetic. It shouldn’t have happened. The cancerous greed of a few bastards ruins everything for normal players.

Nobody needs to do that there. Indeed, by joining a guild in retail, you can very well clear whatever and get whatever item you want, if you’re lucky. That’s it - luck. RNG. It’s all that you need. And that’s PERFECT, the way a mmorpg should be - rolling the dice.

Now, the guild part, which I said I’d return to. I gave him the same advice. Dude, just join another guild. There, problem solved, ZG, whatever. Well, no. Not quite. Because if he joined a guild, he couldn’t “just” raid BWL and AQ (which is what he was most interested in). They’d drag him into Naxx, kicking and screaming, but at the same time he couldn’t get anything from there, because, well, he’d be the new guy - and either DKP or EPGP or LC would prevent the new guy from getting any of the BEST items for a loooong time; so it would be all effort, no reward. Because all those 3 systems suck and they’re all extremely vulnerable to “leadership” corruption.

THAT shouldn’t happen. What should happen is that you go to a raid and you have A CHANCE of getting something (if you’re lucky, again, rolling the dice) because you’ve contributed to the raid’s success.

Personal loot definitely made retail more healthy. Other (completely unwelcome) changes affected it in a negative way, but I’m not particularly interested in bashing retail right now; I’m playing classic for good reasons, enough said.

It’s not about ME SEEING IT. It’s about how it affects players, who feel that this is pay to win and there’s no way for them to win, that the game is rigged. And it IS in fact rigged.

What a sad, pathetic life you must have. While I don’t screenshot “all the loot I receive”, I did take screenshots of some of those items that I felt were remarkable. Like the BIS belt, finally mine, after a long period of it not dropping. The FF ring is only there because I took a screenshot of the KT kill - I happened to get the ring shortly before it.

You know what I did with them? I used to send them to my friend. He used to send me screenshots when he’d get something good or when his (not-so-great) guild would manage to kill a new boss. “OMG dude, grats, I’m so happy for you”.

How weird that must be for you with all the 0 friends you definitely deserve.

All this debacle over something that wont happend.
You personal wish to change a core mechanic in a representation of TBC is laughable at best.
Your atempt to justify your reason and to go on a personal rampage to ppl who disagree with you is also laughable at best.

You hiding on your trash toon is hillarious.

GG

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“Wont happend”, eh?

Why don’t you go do whatever your kind does best - sweeping the streets or making sandwiches at Subway or wiping an old man’s behind in a care home or whatever? It would be far more productive for you.

Seeing how your guild wipes on Heigan and needs 2 days for Naxx, perhaps you should reconsider your scrub atitude kthx.

Another sad atempt to insult.

Com on man, do better.

It’s not an insult if it’s true, so cry me a river if it made you sad.

Awwww…ran out of insults did you.

pfffff, seen better atempts from 3 year olds.

Still personal loot will not be implemented in TBC.
That would take too much effort on the small team running the Classic IP.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. In what concerns my friend and myself, if Activision fail to fix the issue, we’ll fix it ourselves in BC.

Did you ever, at any point, consider telling your friend that casuals didn’t really have any chance of clearing BWL, let alone AQ40 back in vanilla? The game that classic aims to recreate the experience of? MMO’s from the late 1990s and early 2000s were not designed to make all the loot and content available for those who could only play a few hours per week .

Did you consider telling him that that 5 extra healing and 15 intellect wouldn’t make or break his ability to raid?

That’s odd. My level 55ish warrior has been able to farm 40g+ in 25 minutes without killing any mobs for months by now. My level 60 characters have had several options for 80g+ per hour since long before AQ was released, again without killing anything.

I doubt that’s true, but there is no MC/BWL pugs in the screenshots you have posted. There are however ZG and Ony groups where most gear is either SR or MS > OS, even bags are raid rolled.

You could have helped your friend host raids where luck was the only factor, but you chose not to do it.

That’s how it is, but it’s up to you as a player to make sure you are willing to spend the neccessary time to do so.

That’s your opinion. In my opinion personal loot is just one of many things that is wrong with retail. Many of those things were brought in to the game after casuals like your friend whined that they could not access all the content/loot they wanted, be it mounts, raids or gear.

In that case you should argue against gold buying and botting. Changing the loot system would do nothing about that. Just look to retail, where blizzard is even facilitating gold selling/buying.

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Good job on derailing your own post.

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What a terrible idea, it goes against the classic experience completely.

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No, because BWL, AQ40 and Naxx are being pugged on Shazzrah and every pug needs healers, so he could very well pug them (in fact, he has pugged (cleared) both BWL and AQ40, but not Naxxramas).

Joining the groups wasn’t the issue (everyone wants windfury and chain heal). Getting something out of them was the issue.

BWL, AQ40 and Naxx were also pugged in Vanilla, on my server (Magtheridon-EU; granted, half the people there were from Nihilum, realitysucks and Destiny, so at least half the people knew what they were doing), but not on every server. I led my own BWL pug in vanilla while I was trying to get my Neltharion’s Tear (which I ended up getting after quite a few raids).

Blah, I haven’t even looked at the shaman enchant, I don’t know what it does and I don’t care. It’s irrelevant. What’s relevant is that with the current system, he could either join (and get nothing he wanted) or not join. In short, why login, why bother? So he quit.

That’s just great. I’m telling you that a resto shaman couldn’t really farm a damn thing worth mentioning, you’re telling me that you farmed 40g in 25 minutes. So what’s that, less than 100g/hour? Great.

So tell me how many hours would you need to farm with your warrior to get Gressil, for example (there’s a video on youtube of it being sold for 198k, supposedly - probably staged, because on my server it sells for 25k).

Go ahead, try to imagine that you’re talking to a good friend and you’re telling him “so basically, if you want that one item, you just need to farm for 250 hours, which is what, just over 31 working days, not even 2 months”. Try to imagine that he’s making £85,000/year at his full-time job (as that’s what my friend is on), keep a serious face and tell him that he just needs to neglect his family or quit his job or both - for a few months for each item, no more than a few years in total, because, well, people need to sell that gold. Or he could just buy it, because, after all, let’s face it, you people commenting on this request are involved in it one way or another - no legitimate player would object.

It’s the same for BWL and AQ40. GBID or hard reserved or whatever. Just go ahead and create a character on Shazzrah horde and watch the LFG/Trade chat and you’ll see them all the time. What you failed to remember was that I didn’t take the screenshots (at the time) to point out the chat, hence I didn’t include literally everything I’ve ever seen…but I do know what I’ve seen.

Over a few hours of watching the chat I have no doubt that you’ll see plenty of MC/BWL/AQ40 pugs with everything relevant reserved or on gbid.

Not in classic, due to various factors. But I will be able to help him in BC, which is why I said that either Blizzard/Activision will beat these greedy bastards or we’ll simply join them in HR-ing everything relevant (he’ll play his resto shaman, I’ll be playing a tank, LF3M dps , everything reserved np).

“It’s up to you” when 5-10% of the players do it. When this, in fact, becomes the meta, it’s no longer an option for you to do anything. You’re suddenly the outlier, you’re suddenly the “abnormal” one.

When you’ve got 2 people in the guild flasking for raids, they’re the weirdos. When you’ve got 39 flasking and you’re not flasking…guess what…

No, it’s in fact the other way around.

Selfish & greedy bastards abused master loot in every way they could until the stench finally reached Blizzard/Activision. At which point even they had to admit that it was wrong. So it was fixed.

I’ve been playing this since vanilla. As such, I’ve been part of a fairly high number of guilds. I’ve seen exactly ONE guild whether the “leadership” didn’t abuse the system. If it was DKP or EPGP, they’d bench you when it was your turn to get something and after it dropped (and their friends got it) they’d get you back in. If it was Loot council, they wouldn’t even need to justify it.

Their justifications (when they bothered with it, which wasn’t very often) was that X is a better player than Y or that Y doesn’t have high enough attendance (which was decided by them as well)…alright, so if Y sucks so much, just kick him? Well…no, because we need him. Right, so he’s good enough to be needed, but not good enough to get loot, eh? Funny how that never happened with their friends, no matter how much they f’ed up.

Every one of these bastards contributed to it, bit by bit, until it become unavoidable for Blizzard/Activision to step in.

That’s how it was, so don’t try to turn it around. We’ve had a GM ninja-ing the only glaive his guild ever saw during BC. I know what I’m talking about here. 15 years and precisely one guild where they didn’t abuse the loot system. So spare me the bs about “casuals”.

Yes, it would. It would solve A LOT of things. It HAS solved a lot of problems in retail - the only people complaining about it are the ones who used to abuse it and now can’t abuse it anymore.

This is so far from the truth that I’m amazed that you even bothered to bring it up.
Seems like your friend didnt know how to play his class

It’s amazing how many top raiders from back then hide behind low lvl alts nowadays. One has to wonder /s

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Alright…so you’re a cool player, eh?

So…let’s say…14 slots to cover…let’s say he’d only need 7 for some reason…the usual bis price is between, hm, 10 and 15k (Lokamir sold for 15k during the last bwl gdkp run I’ve seen), let’s assume the rest are 10k, though…so we’ll go with…75k gold needed.

Go for it, post a video on youtube on you farming 75k gold as a resto shaman on a pvp server dominated by alliance and come back with it.

I give you my word that I’ll forward it to him. I’ll then tell him to man up and stop being such a pussy.

Until then, I’d say you’re full of sh!t.

Interesting… I have a few healers in guild who have Lokamir, and none of them paid a single gold to acquire it (well, besides repair/consumable costs ofc). I also don’t remember ever having to pay a single dime for my Neltharion’s Tear, Mishundare etc.

I don’t see them posting here. Much like the above pic you posted could’ve been anyone else’s.

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Can’t imagine why, they MUST know that you’re waiting for confirmation.

Assuming they even exist, of course. Which, considering we’re talking about a person hiding behind a low level alt, would be all but granted.

Then again, if I were flaming on the forums, I wouldn’t want my guild to know either, so I can understand your shame.

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or how about you keep playing retail and enjoy your personal loot ?

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I’m not quite sure of what confirmation you’re talking about, tbh. If it’s about Naxx being pugged on Magtheridon, you can find some clips on warcraftmovies, since the old forums have been deleted.

One example is here https://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=32253

If you’re referring to me running BWL in vanilla and getting NT, all I can do is laugh at you.

If you’re referring to whether my alt mage cleared Naxx, another screenshot has been posted above.

Other than that, I have no clue of what you’re talking about.

Don’t be silly, they’d make me an officer if they read this.

Or how about you stay in classic and keep your stupid opinions nobody asked for in the first place?