so basically, like i said many time over, why take me when you can take that 2k io player
this mindset is a creation of IO, created diversity, there is no even field no more, it’s all about the highest score
And that called competition? If we had the fictional scenario that raider io did not exist and ilevel actually matted:
LFM +15 WM. Come bank for inspect:
You: Haz ilevel 450. Fine to run the dungeon.
Another paladin comes forward with a 460 ilevel.
Party leader takes the ilevel 460 pally
“OmG there is NO diVERSity! Its AlL abOUT the HiGheST iLEvel!”
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Being a programmer my self…There are no C++ code that would fix this game’s issue : The community. The 2 sides of course : Elitist jerks and noobs that want everything, without effort, even if they don’t need gear from +10 for their activities.
There is segregation towards some players, but it has been a thing for a decade.
It’s unlikely to change.
i don’t know why you need to see players in the bank when there is group finder
yes it should be about gear alone, not IO Score
taking players based on gear would solve the score issue
if i have qualified ilvl for that key than it would be easy to accept me
on the other hand, if a guy come who had the same ilvl as me but had higher score, ill get ignored and that guy would be taken
i see you lack some respect, please don’t act like a child when i haven’t been disrespectful towards you
I fail to see even basic logic behind your posts. Hence the ridicule.
So. If we had a job offering.
Person A: Straight A’s in uni. Many awards, commendations in conferences and workshops, voluntarily interned while studying.
Person B: Slept trough uni. Barely passing marks. Came drunk to exams and got the bare minimum to pass out of mercy. But he has the diploma needed for the job position.
Any logical thinking person would take person A for the job. But according to your logic. Person B should get the post cause…reasons?
Ok. Call it silly of course. But its the same situation with raider io. A person with 2k put more effort in his score than a 700-900 person. Yet the 700-900 person should get the spot cause “big bad raider io”?
It is only different in that a curve is most of the time enough, exactly because it is not that punishable if you inv bad players and there is more room.
If you queue for a HC pug and there is one spot left, are they gonna give it to the curve person or the guy with 5 mythic bosses? Doesn’t matter that you have curve if you’re competing against someone with more accomplishments.
Therefore you’re never qualified for a key cause there is no set score required like you need specific ilvl for HC, whoever has the best score is usually taken so you’re only as qualified as you’re better than your competition, and right now when gear is capped at 6, you’re not at all qualified cause you’re queueing against people with 1.8k-2k all the time this week only.
Later in the season this will as always normalize.
Yes ofc you take the best you can get, there is literally no reason not to outside of prejudice against high io players. I don’t wanna repeat my self too much on this point, but a group leader will almost always take best player by score or combination of score and spec.
So yes it works in games, whoever has the best qualifications gets the spot.
IO just makes it much easier to distinguish bad players from good players
To understand that. You need to understand the basic concept of “competition”. That in real life you compete pretty much everywhere. For a study spot, job post, partner and so forth. Nobody owes you anything, you must fight for it.
I fear Draeneiy doesn’t grasp this concept and hence thinks that the whole world owes him…
Edit: Some weird bug? roflz…
that’s why i said you cant compare a game or design a system based on real life structure, people come here for fun not for work
i feel like you didn’t read through my posts, i feel like im repeating my self at this point
this mindset that IO created shouldn’t exist in a GAME
like I said many time before, im not applying for keys im not ready for, i’m applying for keys im more than capable to participate in
but you have that mindset of raider io where you shouldn’t take me, but should take the 2k io player
players shouldn’t feel that way IN GAMES where they forced to of thinking that way
What design flaw? Like what? Game design have nothing to do with it…its players choice, players invented it and players using it. It just a tool that show what you have done and where you do or dont have the experience.
What? …get your score up like everybody else did…nobody started with 2k score…
If you were lazy in s3 then dont blame a game for it.
No youre not qualified… if the requierement is 2k score and you dont have it…then you arent qualified for it, thats ppl requierement…their group their rulles.
Better question is :Why do you apply to groups that requied 2k score when you dont have it?
And why are you so upset after you get declined? Isnt that a little bit dumb?
If you remove io then another stuff pops out and thats good, since ppl that just seek free boost wont be able to hide behind ilvl.
Well yes, but thats not game design flaw…its called lying. It has nothing to do with game design. Because ppl are lying scumbags seeking for a boost. Thats why we need such sites or achievements etc.
No…jeezus man…its not about ilvl at all…thats the last thing you should worry about, especialy in age of titanforging and such systems.
This is perfect example why we need rio. Because of players like you that thinks ilvl is the rule and if you have ilvl you should get insta invite even tho you know jack sh!t about the dungeon.
Its human nature. Video games doesn’t not simply erase the competitive nature of us humans to archive stuff in real life. We simply “fight to achieve something in-game”. While real life> video games…but the basic idea remains.
And so is 6 other people(for example).
Like I said before. You apply for what ever key.
Lets say the same, ilevel 450, raider io 1k.
Then person B with 460 ilevel, rio 1.5k, person C with ilevel 455, rio 1.7k, person D with ilevel 445 with rio 2k and so forth.
You are NOT alone in the signup sheet. So…how to stand out in the crowd? How to make the party leader chose you over person C for example?
Rio is one of the factors which helps in this decision.
…so. Once again. YOU ARE NOT ALONE in the signup sheet. Now with a fresh season 4 up and running. There are like 10-14 dps at queue(if not more). Why should the party leader chose YOU over somebody else?..
Do you finally see where I am going…or not?
ofc, im not blaming him, he should take the best players, cause he is able to see the scores that raider io provides for him
raider io is telling him he should take only the best of the best, and shouldn’t take the rest regardless of their capability
And…thats bad how? There is only 1 spot available. The raid leader can’t take everyone? So the “survival of the fittest”?
Right…The more I read your posts, the more I am confused. Let me try to understand your logic…
We have 1 dps spot available for key X. 4 complete unknown warriors signup.
Their data:
WarriorA - 435 ilevel, raider io 1350
WarriorB - 450 ilevel raider io 450
Warrior C - 445 ilevel, raider io 1600
Warrior D - 430 ilevel, raider io 2000
I would take warrior C, cause both the score and ilevel is in my view the best option. Since other candiates have either low ilevel or low raider io.
How would you pick? Who has the prettiest name? Who has the lowest raider io(bad rio is bad!), roll the dice?
Only 1 spot available, so you can only take 1 but which one?
Edit: and when you chose the one. What about the other 3 left behind? Surely they are also quite capable?
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Already had that. Didn’t work. It was objectively inferior and generated more complaints and loopholes than what we have currently with Rio. Would generate even more complaints and loopholes if implemented now than it did then because then we actually had smarter ways to calculate relative gear power than Item Level.
see, with your explanation you can clearly see the flaws in blizzard design
so every group i apply to, there will always be players with higher score than me, so they ofc will be chosen, and i get declined over and over and over… and i should accept that and shut up ?
No, there won’t always be a player with higher score than you, that’s mathematically impossible unless you are literally the worst player on the planet. But otherwise, yeah, you should accept that, shut up and either spend more time trying to apply to groups or run instances with people you know. If you don’t want to socialize and run instances in an orgazined group of people you know and trust, then you are choosing to live in #puglife and you are choosing to accept and abide by the rules of #puglife, which includes being declined for whatever reason the party leader wants to decline you, including but not limited to your io score. You don’t like that, don’t do pugs. Not much more to it.
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I would say the versatile solution of making your own groups, guilds/communities, friends and etc. But I have feeling that you won’t listen to this so lets skip it to the next paragraph.
And what do you propose? Remove raider io. Sure. People will then ask for specific achievements. Ban achievements? Aight, warcraftlogs of previous runs…let me guess you will campaign to ban warcraftlogs as well right?
People will not invite an complete unknown person without any data to back him(in a pug).
We all get declined from time to time. Now what the m+ season4 in full swing, every dps wants a piece of the action, hence Today, I had time to signup for 20 runs. 16/20 I got declined(could do more, but didnt have the time sadly).
So I just carry on and keep trying or ask friends/guild for some help.
I am sorry but I have a feeling that you are just salty for getting declined and you are currently using rio as your punching bag-scapegoat to blame everything on it. Tomorrow you could blame Blizzard for getting declined to key X…for all we know?
Exactly as alice said. I asked my guild which is a casual hardcore guild that is pretty cool.
Im pretty sure there are tons of similar guild that accepts you as social non raiding member.
If you only like m+ and not raiding you can probably ask their raiders and good players to run your +15 together.
I used to do my weekly 10 only by creating my own group from 0 and push myself but nowadays some guildmember ask if anyone wants to join weekly 10 and I run it with them and get it done with.
So it would favor you. The problem with ilvl or raw RIO score is that they can be falsified by boosting. It’s not uncommon to see people with 1000-1800 RIO that do not know mechanics/have low DPS/don’t interrupt even when having the ilvl. Keys +10 and higher aren’t egalitarian content.
So is it about only you? Even if you would run 100 M+ you would be on the same invite probability as boosted bobby that didn’t run a single M+ on his own and payed for a gear carry. Or you would get him in your group and you would fail a run. Over and over and over again. Even now when RIO shows how many runs someone done (and of what type) this still happens. Without such info it would be a common thing. And M+ in Shadowlands won’t be easier, it will get harder/more annoying just like BfA over Legion M+ because players are getting better and better (the competitive part of the playerbase).
ilvl may be a base of a score, but on it own it’s useless. To easy to manipulate with boosts or playing other type of content. Wanting a scoring system that would benefit you personally now (or expecting it would) is short sighted and selfish.
that’s one of the core problems blizzard is failing to see, while it’s obvious to us that boosting is ruining our experience, they on the other hand allowing it, making harder on us and on them
at the end its blizzard design that give us awful experience
banning boosting would benefit the majority, not just me
You can’t ban boosting as it quickly can get so subtle it would be undetectable in any ways. Plus if they ban in-game currency boosting then a black market of IRL money boosting would flourish. Plus you can have players that got gear from raids or PvP but have little to no knowledge of M+ and want to YOLO a +15 for weekly.
That’s why advanced scoring systems are created. Not only your ilvl, base RIO score but also amount of runs, at which bracket and the with what percentile of performance or going further parsing logs to see mechanics execution efficiency etc. We had wowprogress then RIO with better looks, then RIO with more details, and RIO with even more details.