If you mean superior in dying then I absolutely agree you lost 90% of your population to the scourge😂 cause you where to busy sucking the mana from the sunwell no doubt😂
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I’ll copy paste this post I made a while back, I may have missed somethings to his advantage here and there, but it sums up why I dislike Baine as a mainly Tauren player ; I have no delusions that you’ll agree on them, but perhaps it’ll help you some in atleast seeing where I and allot of other people come from in our dislike.
There is one thing to have a genocidal leader, it is quite another to have a leader that coldy shrugs off his dead people and then weeps about the deaths of enemy military personal afterwards, I believe that was even in the same book - I don’t think you can go for a more horrible portrayal of race leadership in a War story then that ;
I’m starting to think that him being generally a politician type talker and unlikeable is just his niche.
You’re not supposed to really like him I suppose. That’s why the OP actually makes me wonder if we’re playing the same story narrative.
He’s brave? I suppose, he has his moments of bravery, while also being depicted as a passive agressive impotent leader who needs to go behind his opponents backs(See Garrosh’ attack on Theramore, and recently several cases of him vs Sylvanas). It never struck me as a very Tauren way of dealing with matters, certainly not honorable or brave, but as it is with liking his general character, it’s obviously all subjective.But as a Tauren player, I find myself wondering, this ‘Righteous and Brave’(as the OP puts it) Highchieftain of the Tauren, what did he actually do for them?
After his father was slain in the duel with Garrosh Hellscream, he did not stand up against Garrosh, no, he passive agressively sought his help outside the Horde, not bothering to ask his fellow Horde companions for help in the matter of Thunder Bluff. Instead he goes to Jaina Proudmoore*.
Magatha Grimtotem, the one that used Garrosh to kill Baine’s father Cairne gets away, he does not seek to capture her and bring her to justice, whatever justice he will wish upon her, nothing.So he becomes the Tauren tribes HighChieftain by rite of ascendance.
The Alliance attack Taurajo in the cover of darkness, dwarves firebomb it while humans loot and pillage, desecrate the fallen. he turns the other cheek.
Names it a ‘Legitimate target’ and coldly shrugs off his murdered people.
After Taurajo the Alliance besiege the great gates and Mulgore itself, Baine does nothing, it isn’t mentioned, in BFA it happens again, same results.
The Alliance aiding and arming the Grimtotem in the Stonetalon mountains, no mention, no repercussions.
Bael Modan or even dwarves digging in Mulgore itself, no repercussions.
Baine hands over Jaina’s brother, get’s scolded over Theramoore’s destruction, an event he tried warned Jaina Proudmoore about, allowing her to get most of the populace out to safety and he hangs his head, mumbling about his earthmother and the Horde being sick, The same Jaina Proudmoore* that allowed Alliance troops and warmachines to pass through her city to burn and murder their way through the barrens, killing his people and defiling the lands by building towers and roads. Yet, he fails to reply to any of it.
Unlike against his own people, that were exiled from Thunder Bluff after voicing anger and a want for vengeance after the Alliance’ attacks on them.In fact, I don’t think he did anything for his peope At all so far, it’s certainly never mentioned as being his drive for any of his ‘acts of bravery’. If it’s pointed out somewhere in the current narrative I’ve missed it. It seems to all be about his own sense of pride and honor…and the part of him cutting of a piece of his horn and sending it to the hostile faction’s leader…Imagine if Tyrande cuts of a lok of her hair- actually, how about she cuts of one of her ears, seems more apt a comparison- and sends it to the Horde’s council after we save her from her pickle in Shadowlands, how will people look upon that, I wonder.
Quite frankly, I’m also convinced if Baine’s ‘niche character’ was played by ooh say, Malfurion, or Genn Greymane, or any other leader, we would be seeing a whole lot less praises of ‘Stunning and Brave’.
You see, it would have helped allot if 1. The Battle for Thunder Bluff had been in game as a scenario, (and if at all possible without Jaina Proudmoore and Anduin Wryn having a hand in it).
2. It would have helped immensily if the Taurajo questline had not been cut short and Baine cut out, this was his moment to shine, instead he got his defining moment in a book, hardly anyone read in which;
3. He, when questioned by Vol’jin about it, coldly shrugged of his dead people and named Taurajo, a settlement, (even by in game infoGeneral Hawthorne himself said it had a significant civilian population, and the Alliance waited untill the Hunters and ‘stronger units’ were away to raze it) as a ‘Legitimate Target’…This even after (ingame) Alliance soldiers were looting the settlement and mutilating the bodies of the fallen.
4. Before the Horde marches on Theramoore, Baine has his best scout, Perith Stormhoof, warn Jaina about the attack so she atleast can get her civilian population to safety-I don’t take issue with that personally, it’s a nice character trait, he showed more sympathy than the Alliance did, ‘leaving a gap or no’, - Then when Garrosh orders the mana bomb dropped, killing off a big chunk of the Alliance military on Kalimdor, he weeps…so do you see the issue there? He weeps for his enemies, the ones that defiled the lands of his people and massacred them, but that he shrugs off as ‘legitimate targets’, but he weeps for the enemy that attacked his people in the first place, How is does that translate to a likable, or even good leadership for a race?
5. The Tauren that put up a fight or were willing to fight back against the Alliance invaders at Vendetta Point were expelled/ banished from Thunder Bluff, seems fair right? You get attacked, your family and friends firebombed and butchered, but then when you take up arms, your ‘High Chieftain’ decides you must turn the other cheek or never set foot in the capital again, as punishment…for selfdefense?
6. When Jaina confronts him about Theramore, as you see in the cinematic where he returns her brother, because that was his hill to go against the Warchief, not the burning of Teldrassil, not the blighting and raising of Horde troops in Lordaeron city, but no Jaina’s poor brother, is what triggers him into action- He hangs his head in shame, while he is the one that warned her about the attack so she could save as many people as she could!
So no, the character has allot to make amends for, long before Sylvanas became Warchief, he was failing his people as a leader. I mean, we’re supposed to like him? How can I, with all that in his characters repertoire?
Anyway, this is not ment to convince you, it’s just ment to make it clear that you won’t convince me Baine is a good character or a good leader, without asking me to ignore basicly any part of the story he was featured in.
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Ehh, come on, its not like the Gnomes did much better when Sicco Thermaplugg pulled his stunt #Mekkatorque&Lor’themar similarities. 
Yeah, that struck me as bizarre, it really was not a legitimate target, and whilst General Hawthorne might have had honourable intentions towards the civilian population, he still sent Penal Troops from the Stockades in to attack it. What did he -think- would happen? If you use Penal troops, you get atrocities, because these are -criminals- you have forced into uniform! He either didn’t care that much, or was hopelessly naive.
I read somewhere that Baine was actually supposed to slam open the gates and confront the Alliance personally, shouting something like “It took a traitors weapon with poison to kill my father, What chance do you think you have against me!” and calling out any Champion the Alliance put forwards.
Now that would be a cool Baine.
Yeah, that makes no sense at all, Jaina should have known that Baine was being sincere, as if he had wanted her dead, she would be dust at Theramore, her anger is completely unwarranted.
Its even worse than that. Check the tabards on the soldiers. It’s Theramore troops, not just Alliance ones, it’s -Jaina’s- ones. I think that makes Theramore a legitimate target…
He suffers from bad writing, and when he gets -good- writing, it somehow never makes it into the final cut of the game.
But then, what are we to expect whilst Christie Golden is on the creative team for Blizz, who has publicly said that her favourite characters are Jaina, Anduin, and Baine because of his attitude to the Alliance
Absolute dog toffee writing. The character deserves better.
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Your missing my point… And I also believe we talked in length about gnomes and blood elves in another thread cause i remember you.
We did indeed, I just couldn’t resist the jab 
Don’t take it seriously,
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If it was my game I would put the magical elves on the Alliance. All other MMO’s pair the magical elves with Humans and Dwarves against The Orcs. (Lord of the rings is one example). That was the case back in Warcraft 2, but I guess things took a shift later and on.
The blood elves proved their worth in the Horde time and time. I mean… look at How Rommath Treats the Alliance. They don’t really “match” with the other horde races, but I guess that’s why Nightborne are added.
That being said, wow went to a different direction probably for 3 reasons:
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There Must be at least one attractive human looking race in the horde. Also horde players complained that they couldn’t find a attractive race for their girlfriends to play.
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To Balance the factions as Alliance was the majority In classic
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To become more unique than other MMO’s who usually pair elves with Humans and Dwarves. Instead Wow paired them with Orcs, which is unique.
you mean blood elves are inferior to every other race in every way
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The only advantage belf has over other Horde races is the ability to wear shoes.
ofcourse i keep saying it cause it is the truth: They dont fit in. Yeah sadl they dont listen to what the horde say since the only part of the horde who agrees with you that blood elves would be true horde are other that play blood elves but no one else
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The only thing that would be delusional would be to say that a irls average human look worse than a blood elves
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Isn’t that what you have done throughout this discussion. Even when posters like Brigante provided ample evidence to the contrary. You militantly claim your opinion is fact and you are right.
We simply don’t agree, and we don’t have to.
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1.Apperance have nothing to do with why i dislike thm but even if it was there is no rules saying that there have to be if they were so superficial they could just aswell have stayed alliance aslo several other races that are human like and still fits in with the horde do exist like goblins. 2. I know full well majority was alliance in vanilla but hate to break it to you but that have never been the case just look at the alliance population now dying away(not that i mind) and back when the burning crusade was launched it was not that many who played blood elves it is in later years we been over populated with this vermin as most alliance players transfer to horde and to the only race they can relate to an alliance with. 3. i quess you might be right on that one cause i dont play that many mmo games so i let yoiu have that Blizzard are unique in that way quess they made a mistake as it didnt go well. not saying that elves cant work in the horde as Nighborne fits in just fine with horde but blood elves was real screw up
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No it isnt and Brigante havent proven anything as he refuses to give answers when asked and when i prove him wromg he pretends he cant see the repsonds given to him multiple times. And no i dont claim my opinion is a fact i claim that a fact that is proven to you with evidence that both blizzard themself and the community admit is the truth is a fact only that people like you and Brigantes refuses to handle being wrong so you make up lies with no facts behind what you say. Also i never said you have to agree with me and incase you cant realise it yourself its you who is trying to face the horde to see you as fitting in even when they dont so maybe stop trying to force people to agree with your dilusional ideas yourself as it have been proven to you time and time again that you are not true horde members
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You clearly want the last word and will not agree to differ.
The Blood Elves are part of the Horde and rightly so. I will never understand how people can hate on another race with a game or real life for that matter.
You wont accept any facts presented to you, you dismiss everything and you insult anyone for it. There really is no need just because your opinion does not match theirs.
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Bizarre is the right word for it I think - Let’s see, did Hawthorne not care? The in game text went to the point that he, supposedly, did care and hoped for a beter future, that’s why he had ordered the gap in the lines, so he thought the civilians could get to safety(they didn’t and that’s on him anyway).
But he did use conscripted criminals to attack a mostly civilian settlement(by his own words, in game).
Naive, perhaps, but he’s a military commander in a world wracked in wars, how can one be naive in that position. That doesn’t make sense to me, especially if you have been given command over a contingency of criminals and use them to attack a settlement, while it’s defenders are away.
As an OOC comment, I believe the reason why the enemy troops were denoted stockade conscripts and Wildhammer mercenaries, was to give the Alliance as a faction a cop out.
Where Horde do crimes, they share the full burden of responsibility, for the Alliance, there’s pretty much always some backdoor to allow for a ‘wasn’t us!’.
It’s a glaring issue that’s been plagueing the story narrative since Classic, in my opinion.
Indeed…that would have been a High Chieftain doing his duty to protect his people, some one respectable by both friend and foe.
https://tcrf.net/World_of_Warcraft#Baine
(The event voice overs 01 -06 were supposed to be used at the end of the Taurajo questline)
Yes, that would have been a real leader.
It really didn’t, all it was suppsed to do is make Jaina look cool and Baine…what? Look like a simpering idiot? If there was one race leader she had no right to scold for Theramore it was Baine, and he just took it -I mean in fairness, I suppose that says allot more about Jaina Proudmoore then it does about Baine Bloodhoof.
But it was nonsenical, to say the least.
Agreed, Theramore was a legitimate target as it was used to roll out troops and siege weapons into the Barrens and subsequently burn down settlements and siege Mulgore itself. I mean, if a village with a significant civilian population is a legitimate target, then so was Theramore under the same definitions - Not to mention that the later was warned about the incoming attack, the former certainly wasn’t.
Baine’s writing is, in my opinion, inane and atrocious, the character firmly butchered, It’s going to take allot to reconcile it, ironicly Shadowlands and Baine’s presence in the Maw of all places could be just the start to set things right, let him(and Jaina) be confronted with the dead and maybe it’ll change his tune - But this is wishfull thinking on my part.
So far Baine drags the tauren race down, they were never ment to be hippies or ‘pacifists’;
Note how ; ‘As a proud tribesman of Mulgore, you must uphold the honor of your people, and safeguard the lands of your ancestors’ in the narration comes to odds with in game portrayal, in how Baine punishes those of his people that fight to protect their lands and family after the events in the Cataclysm.
The older intro;
It’s says that though the Tauren are peacefull in nature, no where does it say they are pacifists that won’t strike out against their enemies.
It would be nonsense, they’re alive because they fight, Baine himself was taken captive by the Centaur in the events of WC 3: The Frozen Throne, the Founding of Durotar - The tauren were driven to be nomads by the Centaur, forced to live under harsh conditions in hostile environments like the Barrens and Thousand Needles - That WoW’s narrative portrays them more and more as a bunch of pacifist hippies is awfull - People complained that it was done to the Night Elves but somehow for the Tauren it’s ‘okay’.
I’m not campaigning for them to be brutal warmongers, but things are way off when you compare Cairne Bloodhoof and the Tauren from Warcraft 3 to what Blizzard’s writing team made them into in WoW.
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Preach it my friend.
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But the average human irl looks worse…
i’m literally on a beach right now and I see 8 out of like 40 people that look better than a male blood elf, 3 of them being me and my friends. 
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Both Baine and Thrall are cowards. They do not belong to the horde, better kill them.
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I dont care about the last word but i will keep correcting you when you insult the horde so if you dont want insult then dont insult others yourself genius( and no im not saying your a genius its called irony). They are part of horde yes but not rightfully as you well know. And yes i will accept facts but maybe you should try using some then instead of talking dilusional rubbis that dont have any facts behind them.
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It’s just pointless I’m not going to reply again. It’s just insults and misinformation every time.
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