what is your resoning of this? the player numbers being so low is in part due to the game designers catering to mythic raiders exclusively
Lol not sure where you get your ideas from, but both those statements are incorrect.
all i heard were mythic guilds and raiders moaning that other players get gear in game that is close to what they have. No , we cant have that, cant we? All this nonsense of burnout has been debunked long ago. It has to do with entitlement and a feeling of being better geared, to own casuals or those who did not have had great luck on getting into a proper guild
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so you are saying loot was not rewarding back then? What about ppl who want to raid and get high end gear but they cant because they have a hard time getting into a raid guild to begin with? Yeah, let’s not speak about those issues, shall we…?
Getting into a proper guild isn’t any matter of “luck”
The fact that you do think so says a lot about your character as a person.
Then its probably time you start looking in a mirror and figure out what can be improved about yourself rather than point the finger.
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To be fair, I would start question myself and start looking at why I have such troubles getting into a raiding guild.
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a matter of skill?
New players coming in game would love to have a chat with you! Returning p0layers also, after a longer absence!
Let’s get serious about this… have a stroll around guild recruitment, and look at the requierments!
This is why titanforge needs to be brought back. I iknow ppl who are good and couldnt get into a raiding guild because low ilevel, because no previous tier raid experience (they had breaks) and so on.
So now, why should these paying players be LEFT OUT by Blizzard decision, again?
All the remove titanforging cries were from high end players who couldnt fathom that others have high ilevel. This is more aggravated now that in Shadowlands the gear will be so scarce
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If that’s what you want to believe… 
You sound ridiculous - people doing mythic raiding and investing their time into the game should be rewarded for it. There’s nothing wrong with being a “casual” but seeing people like that with same ilvl (or sometimes even better) items than those doing the most difficult content in the game is also ridiculous. Doing a random world quest and getting a 2049024+ ilvl item with a socket and leech that’s better than every single other item sounds perfectly balanced right? Because who doesn’t want the best stuff for free, by just having “some luck”, right? 
actually, you have failed to address any point i have made, instead coming back with an ad hominem worth of nothing. Don’t make this about me, as i wont go there…
So, what should new comers to game, or old players coming back after having a break espect from the game, other than being bottom foder for high end mythic players whom will trash them in a matter of seconds in pvp related content, huh?
I am literally a returning player. Came back 4/5 weeks ago after a 3 year absence myself. And before that… I was also out for well over 2 years. Both times I found a guild within weeks. The issue is with you. Not with your “luck”.
I think you need to look up what an ad hominem is.
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I have not said otehrwise. Ppl time is precious. Raiding mythic + or normal. T5ime is time and its all the same.
I have never seen a normal raiding player running around with better gear than a mythic raider, not even in lala land, what you are saying is simply grasping at straws. Could they get close to hc level of gear? Yes. Could have they surpass that? Never.
Doing random quest did not got you mythic raid gear equivalent if titanforged, again, you are grasping , this is plain and simple dissinformation. I dont know if on purpose or not.
The idea of warforge-titanforging is great, but in practice it is very bad.
The only reason it seems like a good choice now, is because blizzard managed to give an even worse system in corruptions.
Now don’t get me wrong, corruptions can be cool and fun, but they as a system and how they were executed is just very… very bad.
I think this all boils down to the one main problem the game has been having for quite a while, and for the first time in what seems to be ages, blizzard is finally addressing the situation.
The situation and the problem being that, players are stepping into content while massively outgearing it, this leads to a very unhealthy dynamic and makes the playerbase have unreasonable demands.
Imo, with loot being so scarce and not many powerlevel buffing systems in shadowlands, I think we are in to a very interesting period of time, I think players will hate it at the start, but then realize that actually progression is back and will start liking it.
I think we have given titan forging and corruptions a chance, let’s give loot scarcity and the inability to overgear content massively before even stepping into it a chance before we resort to other system.
I think (or at least hope) that you’re intelligent enough to understand my point. I’ve literally seen people with full WQ/LFR dream-xforged gear having higher ilvl than people doing actual raiding, I hope that’s enough for you. I’ll once again repeat my point for you though - receiving high ilvl gear that’s adequate to gear from higher tier raids/m+ by doing basically nothing should have never been a thing.
I love Bis gear. Anything that makes me get something and then think “Maybe it isnt good… I could get it to reforge!” makes me sad.
I am all for removing it forever and having BiS back. Happy times!
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war/titan forging as a concept in its original design was a good idea, a lucky bonus to help a struggling raid team overcome a hurdle of a boss, nobody was mad at this it did its job & made sense
legion tho, friend of mine got a chest piece from EN lfr that he was using until nighthold hc, & he only swapped it out because of tier, it was still a higher ilvl, it was out of hand
"insert epic name"forging could work still if it had a cap, say lfr wouldn’t surpass normal ilvl, if you got a forge in normal in would cap out at hc ilvl & mythic gear would not forge at all, it would work as originally intended without invalidating the next logical gear step
also just so you know mr shaman, 90% of mythic raiders don’t care about gear, its a tool to get the kill & nothing more, hell most of us used the trinkets from EP in nya because it was better, none of us even thought about ilvl just how powerful an item is so we can get the kill
blaming them/us for the loss of a system we didn’t rly use or care about is lunacy
titan forging was removed because it was too hard to balance & made the next raid too easy,
normal guilds would farm the raid get full TF gear then when the next tier rolled around they would have better ilvl than what drops from the bosses in the bracket they raid at…
You can’t really call someone else ridiculous and then say that casuals had same or even better gear than mythic raiders.
But yeah i’m not expecting people like you to have any self awareness however i do expect like 6 months into SL to encounter the same situations you clowns have been whining about for the last 3 years.
Yes it is.
Ive said all along in these forums that peoples whining are a new chance for blizzard to push us more into grinding instead of relief us from it.
TF/WF removed and we got Corruptions, now with TF/WF removed in SL players dont have a reason to spam dungeons so their new aproach to more grinding was to reduce ILVLs and to make all the game drop less loot.
Forum warriors will never admit it, still people that played the game before and after know that with WF/TF we had reasonalby geared chars in 2 weeks, with corruptions took us MONTHS, in shadowlands will take alot as well.
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yes please. lfr is dead…alliance esp needs this