All I’m saying is that is shouldn’t change anything since ranking doesn’t change, so it is partially people’s fault that it does, right ? Because the general public, when unable to obtain rating specific rewards, can just ask or expect rating to be inflated and, voilà, they get those previously unobtainable rewards !
But if people weren’t crying so much, and weren’t taking a break because they aren’t 3k2 after week 3, and instead kept playing we wouldn’t have MMR issue.
You said it yourself, it is based on player count. Players these days instantly stop when they don’t get stuff easily, and wait until it becomes easy. That’s the problem.
Yeah. Some people care too much. And then other people care even more so by stream lurking and relaying the flame when they are not the perpetrator and not the target. They just … insert themselves into this to feed off imagined drama.
Make the rating statisticly based on the players skill.
Check all people who got glad the last 3 seasons, and check where the majority of this people play in the current season.
If 50% of this people have 100 games played and are hardstuck on 2.100 than there is a issue. = Rating increase until the majority of this people hits gladiator rating again.
If 5 people from that selection(glads) are on 2100 but the majority hits 2400, than its a personal issue from that 5 people.= no rating increase
Now do this for every skill/reward bracket and the system is more indepentend from player count.
And btw just a small side note. The R1 cutoff rule got also changed in season1 of df. Why if the system is fine how it is? Because the rule change would mean this season 77 characters get R1 instead of 150 characters.
i only want beeing not a cyclone bot anymore, and more players to play against, especially in 2s
ofc they will, if this would be pve, Blizzard would have done something long ago, they can see that^^
not a single company want´s to make less money, because they are selling a terrible product, buz blizz is so big, that they just dont care about the minority in pvp^^
cant see it in dragonflight
big true, friends of mine made a us account, and it´s allot more fun on us, and less sweaty, + u see more none s+ meta comps (btw do you know why? i dont, us players are less tryhard, or why is that like this?)
sounds like a lively game
all good u re right here.
people who plays s+ tier meta in every season, cares already too much.
Peoples in a big peoples in large numbers are most likely crying, the fun behind this is, it actually does something, but not in wow, because everyone of us, + casuals are the minority when it comes to pvp
look at pve, some backpedaling vulpera guys are crying, that the game is too hard in m+, what does blizz, makes m+ easier for them, and also easier to get in cuuuuuuz of pve
The thing I learned about PVP in wow is that crying doesn’t help and wont change anything, the problem in this case is, the players have power over others, and made the selfish decision “if i dont get the reward, other peoples shouldnt get it either”
i mean blizz could make a bandaid fix, or make a better system, but They just don’t care
i know it wont be better, only worse, and in 5 years we’ll be sitting there and thinking, yeah, there are even fewer players than in df
i mean i rather seeing more peoples on a mount, but having a more living game, instead of having a dead game. (i think most of us don’t ride on it anyway) atleast i didnt in the past
but each on their own
same in pve, if this is the case. or guilds dissolve, just normal human behavior, because they think in terms of time and effort
when it takes so much time that it’s simply not possible, ofc peoples wont try to invest time into it.
That’s just the gaming mentality in every game what have ranked gameplay.
They play for fun and have laugh with their friends while doing it. Its mmo first than the esport they started direct pvp towards to later on. Other games like mobas and shooters are far better for that. We wouldnt even have this whole mmr problem currently if ppl just played the game instead quit to wait it become easyer later. But even if this is playerbase caused issue to a degree I still think the system should be reworked eventually and current least effort measures applyed to try remedy the situation we are in with only handful of players left playing.
Mmh. This system is also very flawed. It works only if everyone is honest, always tries their best, and no one boosts. Else your system will gift rating for no good reason.
If many people are boosting lower, it breaks your system.
If a good portion of people decide to abuse your system, and remain low the first half of the season on purpose (since there is no reason to climb early anyway), it breaks your system.
If people just play for fun with friends before trying hard because they know your system works how it works, it breaks your system.
Don’t get me wrong the idea isn’t bad in and of itself, you just can never implement something like this. Performance isn’t a constant at all.
Exactly!
For some reason WoW players have a tendency to think that this rule of “humans work like that” doesn’t apply to their environment. But hey, it does !
Well i understand your concerns and you have point there. What if u force people to play by ingame mechanics (gear or other mecahnics) that forces people to play honest. Against the booster you cant realy do much. Both systems not working against boosters
How would you do that ? Lets say today I make a new Rogue and decide to not play more after reaching 2100, or to play but throw every 2nd game to make sure I don’t go over 2150, what can you do to stop me ?
Yes, that is a big plague. And, for the record, I believe that MMR increase makes way for more boosting (because it makes it easier to get people to rating specific rewards, so you can boost more people, boost worse people), another reason why you don’t see me defend it and then think I’m “low IQ” or whatever you typed before editing.
WoW being an MMORPG game has historically revolved around character progression rewards, such as gear and cosmetics and such.
This flows into PvP, however that is a problem.
People who play other PvP games online, such as League, Dota, Smite, even Chess, when they play ranked, they don’t care that much about skins or cosmetics.
Those people care about their rating and rankings.
Rating and ranking becomes the goal and the reward for those people.
The easily accessibility also helps this out a lot.
WoW PvPers, especially the casual ones, do not have this mentality. They want other things. “Rating is it’s own reward” isn’t part of WoW PvP’ers mentality. Which is a big part of the problem, and a part of it comes from the lack of accessibility, introduction and baseline viability of WoW PvP. You’re walled by so many things as a new player. You don’t have this problem in other games, where you just login and play.
Personal rating decrease every weeek if not played. (only on higher ranks)
The highest char on the account will be used for the calculation ofc.
And yes you can keep feeding on purpose to abuse the system - the system only fails if the majority of people will act like that. And if people collectively feed or dont play on purpose both systems are not working well as you can see now.
Well i used the editor to find a better word for it - selfish is way more appropriate than low iq . And i still think there is selfish reasons why your against rating increase - change my mind
ofc, the playerbase is also bigger, and the devs make balance around the pvp gameplay, because it’s the main game
the main majority in wow are the opposite, Ceo´s trying to minmaxe the income around Female Vulpera, on a Shop Mount i think 80% ore more of the wow playerbase are just Casuals
that’s why it’s problematic when i make a league of legends comparison when it comes to mmr, and playerbase % wise it is better, when it comes to pvp balance it is better, when it comes to meta play it is even worse, but the pvp mode is just the main game there. and themain game in wow is doing dailys, farming mounts and buying shop mounts.
yeah i saw it in ssn2 crazy how the rating got inflated in the last 2 weeks, i was pretty mad, because i quit mid season, and i think glad was obtainable in this season for me when I compare the ranks, but it doesn’t matter anyway was anyway a cringe aug evoker season, even when i abused it
for casual and lower players ofc it should, but the biggest problem is, It’s difficult to fix because you need more people to play this game mode to fix it
u could make easier fixes if we had “more players” are playing the game, for example, if we had the same playerbase as inLegion, or even Bfa, they could make a fix, that newer players andlower players, dont getting farmed by Higher Players over and over again
something most players have forgotten i think, is that in Shadowlands, some Peoples with elite gear, qued down on purpose, so they can helping a friend easier, to get rating, or his honor
also some peoples qued down, cuz it was so easy too drop the mmr "what got fixed in late sl or df ssn1 i think?
so this means, many newer players, and “really casual players” got stomped by “better players, especially with the gear advantage”
I think that caused damage too
Maybe since the playerbase dropped so hard, maybe it would be okay to nerf glad from 2.4 to 2.3 or 2250 something like that so it isnt as inflated as in shadowlands ssn1/2 and not as deflated as df ssn1 (nobody have to agree with me on that, it´s just a shower thought)
BUT what blizzard need´s to do asap, is to make more rewards for Lower players, or atleast for more “rating” steps (and better Tabards lol, Whoever makes the dragonflight tabards, they look like rep tabards or even worse)
PvP firstly needs introduction and it needs 3rd party addons and weakauras people massively use right now to become baseline game options. This is definitely not impossible or too hard to do.
PvE has such a wide range of training wheels and things even a 5 year old child can understand and learn from the game itself. They even added follower dungeons where you can practice anything you want by yourself.
You have ingame introduction and information about what every boss does. You have casual versions of every content.
What do you have to learn arena? Play a Skirmish where its double DPS and somebody dies in the first 20 seconds? That’s not the real game.
When I see people stuck for thousands of games at a rating in Arena, it’s more sad for me to look at than funny. It means the person literally never received help, and because of being stuck for so long, wouldn’t take advice or help anyway because of being so annoyed and negative about it.
So Accessibility should be the first step. Then it’s rewards, because that’s something you can’t change for the average wow player.
Lontar suggested they make the next season super inflated, so people can get their rewards easily and rankings, and then revamp the system next expansion and add color ranks like in other games, such as Bronze Silver Gold Platinum etc.
Which is completely fair. There’s no point to artificially keep a fossil ranking system just because it’s unique, when more and more people are quitting.
It is. And I even said don’t start with some random personal example. I can give you ten of them too, while also a few where it didn’t worked.
You have a majority of the playerbase , 60-70%? Stuck below the first real reward in arena. That’s not a healthy system. And the solution is to consume endless guides , tech out your ui etc to get the first reward ?
And even with that it doesn’t work cleanly. Just look at the wow pvp discords what uis people build. They are a mess full of WAs.
The Progression should be more smooth and keept INGAME Atleast to reach the first rewards. Higher level play always is complicated and can stay that way.
But people should be able to progress on their own.
Heck Iam not asking to adjust any rating over 1,8, you can keep your prestige stuff / make it even harder to get. Aslong as more people play again
But flatten the curve below 1,8 to make pvp accessible and get more people in.
And no. I don’t need help getting 1,8 myself and asking for that reason
Edit : imagine if every other mythic + group would be like
„Ey look at the nice elite gear, I want it, guys wanna spend a few days grinding it ? „
While now it’s. Well guess only 10% of us will get or we have to watch hours of guides / hope we can understand it / practice enough games for weeks / hope a glad carry’s us and explains stuff
Ah. So I can never again take two weeks vacation when a season is kind of close to its end if I care about rewards. I cannot spend several days not playing, going out more than usual, playing other games with friends and so on. Literally chained to the game.
Rating decay is something that I heavily dislike because the one and only direct consequence is hard addiction, it creates a “need to be here always, need to play always”, that’s extremely unhealthy.
I do not think it is the wise route.
The top end players will not abuse the system, they will remain top ladder always. However, the vast majority, the players who know they can never have a chance at r1 in the forseeable future, who struggle to get glad, sometimes miss it… these people are way more than the top end players. Without trying to collectively abuse the system, why on earth would they not do it ? Glad is a struggle. If they know the system will grant everyone 200 additional rating in a month, why play, why sweat, why have difficult games vs other people who tryhard when they can slay worse players on 2k, having fun and waiting for their free rating/mmr ?
I don’t know you at all, aside from having seen you in a couple arenas, but I feel like you hold human nature in too high esteem. Most people, and that’s not a WoW thing, that’s always true no matter what, will always go for the path of least effort. It’s basic sentient behavior. Abusing this system will be the natural way to act for the majority. Without even doing it consciously.
At the risk of sounding rude, I don’t care what you think. I explained my thoughts on the matter already. If you have the arrogance to think you know what’s in my head better than myself, well, you do you, I am not going to stop you. Otherwise, I am always happy to discuss.
That being said, if I try to think about it, I don’t even understand the accusation. Across the board rating increase would work for me just like it would work for others, so … where’s the selfish coming from ? If anything, I have only things to gain by overall rating increase, no ? Y’know all that irrelevant fluff people love, like higher max exp and stuff. Rank wouldn’t change anyway.
That is simple to answer - elitism.
Just because u got the rewards and others are struggeling to get them. In your eyes everythng is good unless you start to struggel.
You´r against mmr increase to help other peopler get easier rewards but at the same time i saw you nowhere complaing that the r1 cutoff got incresed by the alt rule change.The guy who says A should also say B - oh wait the r1 cutoff change will effect you… LMAO lovely its pure entertainment
I swear many of you around here have an issue with others. Are others so important in your life that you are projecting to a point where you think it is the same for everybody ?
I don’t give a damn about what rewards X or Y get, what I care about is getting what I want to get myself. The goals and aspirations of other people are just that, keywords being of other people.
In the end, regarding skill evaluation, so, elitism, the only metric is ranking. RANKING. Not Glad mount, not rating, not transmog. And regardless of MMR increase, rankings won’t change.
So, no, I don’t care at all.
If you want my opinion on stuff, you can ask me instead of making stupid assumptions on a public forum, you know. About that, I think that the optimal way it should work is a hybrid between how it used to be, and how it is now. Basically, the alt rule that exists now should be a class alt rule imo.
That means, if someone has one Rogue, one Priest and one Druid in the cutoff, he takes 3 slots (whereas the current system only makes the guy take 1), but if he has two Priests and one Druid then he takes only 2 slots, because the 2nd Priest doesn’t count.
That’s how I would have made the system if I could decide. So, if I could decide, there would be less titles than now, making it harder for me to try and get one. But hey, keep assuming I like how it works without asking me first. Good way to talk to people.
You do care , because you are against a rating increase to make it easier for other people.
Wrong again
check your reason why u dont want rating increase - short: to not make rewards for free
Thats a good take, but honestly no rating increase for the average andy, than r1 should have no change at all - let the pure competition win, until 10 spots are left.
Well again no, that’s just you having the gall to decide you know my thoughts better than myself (and despite the fact that I told you my reasons, y’know with an actual reasoning and stuff).
That’s called acting stupid. If you’re not stupid, then don’t act like one. Seriously.
In the end, you are likely sad that the PvP part of the game is in a rather poor state. So am I. The difference between us is that we don’t share the same opinion on what a flat out rating increase would cause. You believe it would be good. I believe that, initially, it may be, but the implications (that I explained) would make it a bad change on the longer run.
There is nothing about caring about whether the Duelist guy gets his first Gladiator. I do not care. At all. Eh, I even helped a few people in LFG a couple seasons back because I was bored, if I didn’t want others to get rewards then I wouldn’t have done that.
It’s simply that while we both see a problem about PvP we don’t share opinions on the impact of a flat rating increase as a solution. And that’s fine. People disagree about stuff everyday, and sometimes no one is right or wrong. You don’t have to behave like a wild animal making veiled insults and assumpions all of a sudden just because I don’t agree with you.
Are you … familiar with the concept and definition of a reward ?
Well at least if that happened, Blizzard would end up doing something.
so who cares if people play inflated season higher than they should ? you?
So people are way to focused on rating instead of ranking thats why you dont want an rating increase? if so? than it doesnt matter anyway if the rating gets increased by200 rating… And on top of that 99,5% of the player base in the end of the season doesnt even get displayed the rank they have.
so lets focus on something the majority doesnt even know.
again who cares if people getting free rewards? me or u? if u cant differ
its is you again who cares about others rewards, again you my friend if u cant differ.
again you care. i dont know how many posts i have to copy until u realise ur entaining.
That is the opposit what the other 10 statements from you say.
We both care about pvp, we have both have different takes which is fine.
The rating system needs an change wheter u like it or not.
In Fact Blizzard is getting paid to figure out the best way to go for the future, but i think we both can agree that this system is not working well- when there is no constant playerbase and especially activity on the ladder.
The Elite 1800 transmog doesn’t all come at once when you reach 1800.
At 1800 you receive the shoulders and helmet.
At 1600 you receive most of the other pieces, I believe at 1200 and 1400 you receive some of the offpieces. It’s a gradual process.
I already said that the introduction should be better just by providing UI options ingame already, which they aren’t doing.
1800 is not even close to higher level play. It’s pretty basic.
As an example, 1800 Solo Shuffle games are basically a dungeon in terms of what people are doing - DPS smashing all their dmg buttons immediately and trinketing instantly, and healers ramping up their PvE healing rotation. Nearly all major cooldowns are used within the first 30 seconds, and usually the round ends shortly after based on which team has tankier / harder to kill specs.
This is literally basic level play. The level below it are the ratings where people don’t understand what their own class spells do, their own talents, don’t have keybinds, etc. And even that level of gameplay provides some kinds of rewards.
It’s already as flat as humanly possible. As I wrote above.
PvP’s problem isn’t that people can’t reach 1800. Literally anybody can if they learn basics of the game. PvP’s problem is that it becomes a lot more complicated after that.
The difference between 1600 and 1800 is very small. Once you have 1800 and want 2100, the difference is bigger, but still not that large. However, the difference between 2100 and Elite/Gladiator/Legend is 50 times larger. Here is the problem.
There’s 300 rating difference between Rival And Duelist. But 80% of all Rival players can actually achieve Duelist, if they tweak their gameplay a little bit. However less than 5% of Duelist players can achieve Gladiator, and less than maybe 15-10% can achieve Elite. The gap is way too big.
It’s not hours of guides. You’re being ignorant to an absurd level. I’ve literally seen IRL friends watch a 15 minute guide on their spec and then gaining 200+ rating within a week. I am sorry that a learning allergy is what is gatekeeping people from their own goals.
One of the pillars of the WoW PvP community is complaining and being ignorant.
There’s literally only two things every player needs to push rating - information and practice. The people who are hardstuck on ratings are practicing the wrong things, or just doing the wrong things in general, because they lack information.
You tell a low-rated Warlock player to keep distance from his port and use it every time his healer enters crowd control, woop woop, the guy is 300 rating higher all of a sudden. Wow, such intense high-level gameplay. Wait, not really. It’s a basic thing which a lot of players don’t seem to understand or learn as a Warlock.
Even though I feel like repeating myself a little bit, I’ll do it and try to get the point across. Increasing rating just like that, with a blink, will have three consequences, only one of them being good.
First, the good one. People see they have more rating now, so they log in and play. The ladder is more active, ratings go up even more, everyone is happy. That, I agree with.
The other two are not so good. Pretty bad, even. The first of these two is that boosting and “coaching” become more common than they already are, because all of a sudden the services are easier to perform, the required level of entry of clients when they need to participate is lower, and the spectrum of rating people could want to be boosted to is wider. Then, everyone who was initially happy to play now face boosters a lot, on all ratings. Not so happy then. You did agree that boosting was a huge issue. And the second of these consequences is that people get used to inflation. People get used to be given out stuff when they can’t get it themselves otherwise. People get used to blizzard eventually inflating rating. So the overall level of play goes down because people realize they don’t have to become better to climb and snatch rewards, they just need to do nothing and wait for inflation. So people just stop trying to become good. They don’t need to. I don’t know about you, but I have way, way more fun when the overall level is higher. And also, and this is most likely the most important part of my entire wall of text, people stop playing before inflation. They know, right, that eventually it’ll be easy, or easier at the very least. Why play when it is hard ? You have to understand one very important thing about WoW, it is that by the nature of the game (a MMORPG) very few people play rated PvP just to win and be better. Most people who take part in it take part in it for rewards. Partially or totally. So, if you add inflation, then all those players will not do a single game until inflation happens because it is the path of least effort. They will then log, claim the rewards they aimed for, and log off. So we have a dead season before inflation happens, then fun for two weeks (which would not happen without inflation as people would know the rewards won’t be handed to them so they have to learn and play to become better and get them, so ladder activity and overall better level etc etc). You could argue that the solution would be to instantly inflate the season, like was the case in SL S1, but if you do that then you just have the illusion of a good season, because there is a great start, lots of participation, and then once people have what they want, or think they do, and they just … stop playing ! And you, once again, end up with a dead moment.
You don’t fix a broken arm with a bandaid, basically. Everyone runs around slapping the “pls add inflation” etiquette to everything as if it was a solution.
It’s not.
I really hope that in the near future ('cause it is a bit boring now) you will be able to make the difference between caring about whatever rewards other people get, and THE IMPLICATIONS of giving out said rewards like candies on Halloween night.
Can you not see the difference ? Just think of consequences. What does it mean on the long term? How will people behave when they know how the trick works ? I think I tried, once more, to explain it in this post. Please pay attention this time. That’s what I care about. Not the rewards themselves, seriously who cares about one more dragon model that we’ll get a copy of in PvE one day anyway ?
… what ?
You quoted yourself, then said it is different from what I said ? Who would have thought.
Oh I don’t disagree that it needs tweaking. Not just raw rating increase with no afterthought like you suggest though, this is very narrow-minded and blind to ulterior consequences for the game mode as a whole.
