Can we please start naming and shaming m+ leavers ?

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

@Beverly-nordrassil

Leavers, leavers. Oh my oh my. I hate them. Often people leave because they don’t want to screw their precious Rio score. I think Rio should and must incorporate not finished runs in the mix. That would shows how reliable people are and how consistent they are going to the end. Because this is all about at the end: not ruining keys for nothing.

I don’t understand that logic. It doesn’t affect your raider io. Your score doesn’t go down, only up. So any runs that go over don’t affect it.

[Beverly-nordrassil]

You can still see all the runs you did though. My failed KR12 is there on display, 7 minutes after the timer
Now would you invite me for your +12 knowing that I failed all I’ve done so far?

[Macillidan-draenor]

@Alumage-draenor

Most of the runs i join that is a group comprised of low scoring people, it is always the same. Low dps, no interrupts and no knowledge of mechanics. The run is never smooth, but it does almost always finish.

Yeah in my example by low I did mean like 800-1k for +10 compared to taking 2.5k for a +12

[Hínáta-kazzak (Hínáta)]

Yes actually.

KR is a very hard dungeon, someone completing a 12 KR overtime with 7 minutes left probably means they are more than capable enough for any +10 in the game atm.

[Alumage-draenor]

Glad to hear you had a good time and good experience.

@Beverly-nordrassil

Often people leave because they don’t want to screw their precious Rio score.

This is simply not the case at all. A failed key will not decrease your score. It will either increase it or not show as one of your top runs.
It is true that some people don’t like having a depleted key on their page, but this is likely very rare this far into the season.

@Beverly-nordrassil

I think Rio should and must incorporate not finished runs in the mix.

This has been suggested, but without a clear defined system the idea is full of holes.
Does it count all runs that are not finished? if someone else leaves then technically i did not finish either. If we all agree to not finish, then it was not finished by any of us either.

@Beverly-nordrassil

That would shows how reliable people are and how consistent they are going to the end. Because this is all about at the end: not ruining keys for nothing.

If this was the case a leaver could just afk and not leave, then if you take kicking into account of leaving then it is just ripe for abuse.

[Ryugal-lightbringer]

@Beverly-nordrassil

Now would you invite me for your +12 knowing that I failed all I’ve done so far?

Yes, cause I don’t need score from +12. But you do - so you will work hard.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Punyelf-draenor

That tells you nothing.

how can statistic tell nothing? it’s a statistic, it shows % of someones leaves.

@Punyelf-draenor

we are going back to the I’ll just afk until you all start leaving issue.

its always possible to just kick out afk with 2 mouse clicks so no, we’re not going back to anything.

@Alumage-draenor

there are easily counterexamples where this would be faulty.

its a statistic, ye bad run happens once in a while, and you’d have 99% leave rate instead of 100%
i feel like only people who want to hide information about themselves are the insecure players or faulty players.

@Alumage-draenor

What you will see with your suggestion is me leaving 15 min in with 30%, which does seem like i was being a dick, though that was not the case at all.

not really. if it takes 15 minutes for a group to clear 30%, and that including 0 bosses, sorry but its not gonna get timed.

@Alumage-draenor

Also would you cut this down to a single number or do you want the system to just show all the keys you have left with time and % so you have to check everything manually?

both
statistic like a score - “X” leave rate, and also other information being available on wow profile page or w/e

[Alumage-draenor]

Oh i was thinking of it relative to a 10. When you said low i thought you meant below 800, which is low for a 10.
I would say a full 800-1k group is probably best for a +10 if you wanna play it safe, taking a 2.5k for a 10 or 12 is just overkill and they are likely to leave if people are playing bad.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

The addon in game does not show that much detail, I doubt very much that people bother checking in that great detail on the website when they are inviting to groups.

It shows how many keys you’ve done on time, and relevant to the key they are queuing for what their highest is etc.

Keys over time give score too. Doing it on time obviously gives more but if it’s a higher key over it can be worth more than a lower key on time. For example my Atal over time is worth more than the one time one I did.

People also have to be realistic. I wouldn’t expect to be taken to a +20 key with my score and record.

[Alumage-draenor]

@Bukachu-ravencrest

how can statistic tell nothing? it’s a statistic, it shows % of someones leaves.

It’s not that it shows nothing, but it is that it shows nothing conclusive.
There are hundreds of valid reasons to leave, and a simple % would not show conclusively how much of that was actually justified.

@Bukachu-ravencrest

its always possible to just kick out afk with 2 mouse clicks so no, we’re not going back to anything.

You can just kick someone sure, but if you count that as leaving then the system can be abused so heavily it is not even funny.

@Bukachu-ravencrest

its a statistic, ye bad run happens once in a while, and you’d have 99% leave rate instead of 100%

But no one has a 99% leave rate. If you’re down to 2 people and someone has no left runs and the other has 5 runs like the one i described (it is really not that uncommon), then i think it is clear to me which one you think should be taken, though it could easily be justified.
I can agree that to people that leave a majority of their dungeons, this would not matter, but i think a majority of the player base has not left a key, at least not as the first leaver, so scenarios like the one i described suddenly means a lot if you’re choosing between people who haven’t left a lot of keys.

@Bukachu-ravencrest

i feel like only people who want to hide information about themselves are the insecure players or faulty players.

No it is players who know that the statistic in of itself means little to nothing. There is no solid idea being presented that gets around the obvious problems with such a system. Either it is indiscriminate and just shows all runs you left regardless of anything or it needs to be reviewed on a case to case basis, either of which is a bad or impossible idea.
Would it only show the first player leaving? Would it show players that were kicked? Are people who as a team abandon a key all get screwed by the system? Stuff like that are left pretty open and if the answer is either yes or no to either of these, then the system will have a unique problem in the form of players exploiting that weakness.

I am not insecure about my stats on this. Even if i play with bad people i stay unless the group calls it almost every time. I have been the first to leave in less than 10 dungeons out of over 300 runs this season (across alts as well).

@Bukachu-ravencrest

not really. if it takes 15 minutes for a group to clear 30%, and that including 0 bosses, sorry but its not gonna get timed.

For that group it was not time able, but it could easily have been if we had a bad start, but a good team. Did a 17 FH where our rogue DCed after first pack, but we continued, did half of the dungeon without him, and yea we probably had around 40% at 15 min in (mind you FH has a shorter timer than SotS by 6 min) and it was really not going well, but he came back and we got back into it and finished with 4 minutes left. The start is not an indication of whether you can time the key or not.

Also in the specific case of SotS, the first 30% are definitely the hardest and slowest if people suck at interrupting, the rest is way easier. I would be confident in timing even a 16 or 17 SotS while being at first boss with 30% with good players, but not with the team i was with.

[Meristu-silvermoon]

Well notorious leavers would be easy to recognize and as with everything else about rio people who arent total … goblins … would be able to use this information …

[Chàsé-outland]

Simple solution. When you start doing M+ even for the first time you have a 5 star team player rating. Each time you leave a M+ team regardless if it is your or someone else’s keystone before the end boss AND before a specific time limit then you lose one star and you are stuck with that rating for the rest of the week.

You can only redeem that star back the following week when you have completed 4 x M + dungeons where your own keystone were NOT used. You can only redeem one star per M+ dungeon and if no one invites you to a M+ dungeon then you have to wait for one week to lapse for 1 star to reset.

The lesser your team player star rating the lower your drop gear % chances on all instance related drops.

The negative rating penalty can only be avoided if all players agree to leave the instance.

[Lynlia-silvermoon]

@Hínáta-kazzak

If blizzard choose one side then the other will be unfairly treated and will complain, quit , take extreme measures.

Well. Blizzard has pretty much chosen the “leavers” side tbh. If somebody leaves. Then the key holder gets solely punished for it. There is absolutely no consequences for the leaver…
Heck…last night. I had 1 leaver for the most stupid reason. Before the 3rd boss on shrine
“Ok. Last key. Somebody left and destroyed my key so now I will leave and destroy yours. /leaveparty”.
I’ve seen a lot of interesting “reasons” but this one is a first and takes the cake tbh. Maybe this is one of your “extreme meassures” you mentioned?

[Jurgenhan-quelthalas (Jurgenhan)]

Blizzard should simply treat mythics like they do with Battlegrounds. For example you have rated battlegrounds where you can start your own group or only join groups with a certain criteria.

But people can still join battlegrounds via randoms. We need mythic added to LFD/LFR that way people who simply want to pug this level can while those who are serious and have keys can have the groups and accept people this way.

A rated mythic could be designed to only let in people who have did a certain level of key , say 10 and up. While others will have to build up their keys and either do mythics via groups they create themselves or via pug groups.

[Waygos-kazzak (Waygos)]

@Ghimrizz-argent-dawn

It feels like we have had this conversation before… like multiple times and I don’t think the outcome will change significantly.

Would you like me to introduce you to “Dejavu?”

[Kvaras-tarren-mill]

@Lxser-draenor

Play
With
Friends.

This is MMORPG, i come here to find a friends.

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

I don’t like key leavers but sometimes it just has to be done. If I’m doing a UR and we wipe multiple times because the team (of guildies) can’t interrupt the first boss to avoid the tank getting ganked and wiping twice, why would I stay?

I agree we need stats to help us make informed decisions about people, I know they won’t be perfect, no system ever is. More information is good though.

[Gerikee-ragnaros (Gerikee)]

It’s a pretty hard topic. In the last two week, I left 90% of the runs. I needed KR+15 intime, for the FoS achievement. I’m really well geared, 418 ilevel, so really the only thing I needed was the run to be intime. I always asked if it will be a timed run, always got yes as an answer. I did everything in my power to complete it in time(flask, feast, rune, pots on trash, etc), but after huge mistakes, I always left. I don’t care about loot, or not timed runs, so why should I stay? I was promised an intime run, break that promise, and I’m not intrested any more. After the first boss or before the last, I don’t care. Timer expired or it surely will before the run is finished, I left. Am I the bad guy for not staying after I don’t have a reason to stay?

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Waygos-kazzak

Would you like me to introduce you to “Dejavu?”

his name is dejarous not dejavu -_-

[Lxser-draenor]

Then maybe play with the friends you make?