Sorry.
I wanted to say that I want to find people with whom I can make friends.
That would not work, Blizzard removed Master Loot from guild runs too because trials deserves loot, it would be hypocrit someone getting nothing for 8 dungeons (if he lost 2 stars) just to gain them back.
Especially for peoples that just want to do the weekly +10 for the chest, i don’t use .Rio because i’m not a fan of M+, but i do the weekly +10 with guild for the chest, so if for some reason i have to leave the party for an inconvenience (s**t can happen), i would be struck with 4 stars for the entirety of the expansion AND with a lower % of droprate compared to others. No thanks
I meant by extreme measures is raising the Io score to super high, intensely checking people and becoming full on toxic etc etc.
I agree blizzard kinda did take the leaver side by not intervening, but that’s the thing, they didn’t lift a finger so they’re kinda not choosing a side but they are chososing a side by not doing anything, it’s complicated but that’s currently the best solution I see.
I agree with you, that player was a douche and they shouldn’t have left for such a petty reason, but that doesn’t mean we restrict everybody because of some bad apples.
In reality a huge portion of the leavers have their own reasons, I’ve seen people leave because they themselves failed, like literally had a mage blink into a smash, then stayed dead and then left, Just now had a paladin that didn’t stand in the green ring from runecarver scorn and died from his channel and then left.
Some of the reasons can be legit and justified, while some are not justified, but in the end it’s relative to the person and their own judgement, such as me not wanting to boost people who make it a requirement to be above a certain r.io and play in a certain way ( BRING BRAIN, BIG DPS, NO DUMBS etc etc ) and then they themselves play way worse than advertised I leave even if the key is completable in time because I feel like I got scammed, some people see it as a douche thing, some people think I should get banned for this, others support my judgement and others are indifferent to it.
So who’s judgement should Blizzard follow? theirs? What if their judgement is it’s okay to leave no matter what?
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Problem is people are just gonna afk the timer out or if it is based on key timer, keep suiciding until the team calls it quits.
This is likely not gonna affect the type of people that leave, they are generally set on gear and those who leave are usually not reliant on the gear, else they would likely stay.
Also i would never personally agree to giving players a tangible disadvantage for something that is not always their fault, and even if it is theirs, you can’t punish a player’s character progression because he did something that you might not consider okay.
Would your suggested system include the option for the team to just drop the key with no punishment or is it just someone has to be the first to leave? What if someone is kicked? If someone is kicked and someone leaves after, who gets punished?
Overall i would like to see douchebags leavers get punished, but i have not seen a suggested system that is not either full of holes, ripe for exploiting, gonna punish players that did nothing wrong or is gonna take too much manpower to case-per-case review.
Blizzard has not chosen the side of the leavers, but there is no good suggestion for a system being put forward, and i don’t think blizzard can come up with one either.
The side blizzard has chosen is that as long as YOU invite players, then you chose to put your faith in them.
But god damn, that reason for leaving the key was something i haven’t seen before either, sorry to hear that.
I almost completely agree with this, and have had similar situation with SotS.
The only thing is, if you wipe last boss and you can’t make it, i will always ask if they want to finish because maybe they wanna ditch the key. I will almost always stay for 10-15 minutes past timer if they want to reroll it to another, but i do not blame you for not wanting to do that, but it is something to think about.
What’s point of naming and shaming in cross servers even if blizzard make it legal.
While. There are plenty of valid and justifiable reasons into leaving. But the m+ design is a factor as well.
In a raid. if somebody leaves due to poor group, not boosting plebs…what ever. Well no love lost. Player left. Leader just opened the LFG tool and “took the next one in line”.
While in m+ 1 person can keep 4 people hostage. So if 1 leaves. 3 are passively “punished” while the key holder takes the most severe “punishment”. And Blizzard’s policy of “non-interference” is pretty much defending the “rights” of the 1 leaver while leaving the other 4 guys left behind with: “dO M+ wITh FrIEnDs”.
So technically. Whats stopping me from:
I don’t like the leaders transmog
left mid-run
I don’t like the healers name
left run
I am speaking with Hínáta right now.
left run
Sure a few bad apples now. But it eventually it can “spoil the whole bunch”.
(and before anyone asks. Me not being a censored both in real life and behind the computer monitor is whats stopping me).
Yeah that’s why I think making punishments is wrong, rather fix the keystone system.
If having a leaver wasn’t as bad as it is now people won’t mind.
But the problem is how to find a system that isn’t gamable.
Maybe blizzard can look into other ways.
Tbh I like having a + system, and only unique players can vote to you, once every week and like overwatch after gather a bunch of votes you will level up.
This would even encourage players to try harder and be nicer.
He can’t keep them hostage. If he leaves they are not forced to stay there and if he is afk, they are free to just kick him and try something else, it is not anything resembling a hostage situation.
However what you suggest, makes it so that 3-4 players can hold 1-2 players hostage, literally forcing them to stay in the dungeon and wasting their time to not get punished, even if they have a justified reason for leaving. That is more like a hostage situation.
Somewhat correct. Yes blizzard is unfairly defending the rights of the leaver, if and only if, he was not justified in leaving.
Blizzard is not siding with the leavers, but the leavers are just not punished directly by the system. Blizzard’s inaction on this is likely not due to them not wanting to get involved, but more so that there is no good solution. Every solution brings problems, and a lot of the time, that problem is punishing innocent players.
And i don’t know about you, but i agree wit the words of William Blackstone:
It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.
And in this case, that means i would rather let 10 leavers go unpunished than to see one innocent leaver get punished.
Nothing is stopping you, outside of the fact that you’re just screwing yourself over too.
I can’t speak for everyone, and it does happen sometimes that someone is completely unjustified, but almost all the times i see someone leave, it is for a good reason, and most of the time because one or more people in the group is playing like sh*t and holding us all back.
edit: I would not mind a system implementation, but it needs to not be exploitable and it needs to be accurate and fair. If that is possible, then i am all for it.
I am not suggesting to put somebody in “chains” and enslave them to a M+ run. There can be many systems designed like systems where the punishments accumulate(and reset weekly or monthly or decay slowly…what ever). So that leaving 1 run due to any valid reasons won’t do a scratch while leaving runs on an “industrial scale” will quickly become a burden. And for the parties where all people agree than they "cant do it, be it gear,skill,m+ key level too high…what ever. Can just make a vote to abandon the run without any punishments(I think there is a system like this in FFXIV?). If you get stuck with 4/5 guilty group who are stubbornly refuses to quit. Then like I said…1-2 leaves per week won’t harm you.
I agree with it as well…to a point. Under exceptional circumstances, yes. Its better to let an guilty person go. But if the court is letting “guilty persons” go on the scale so big that…the courthouse serves as a “city center decoration” and nothing else. Then…we have a problem. While I won’t boldly say that there is an “unjustifiable leave” epidemic…but without any safe-guards to prevent it? Well a major forest fire can also start for a small misplaced match.
Its not possible. No system is absolute fool proof. Even the law system has “holes”. With all our breakthroughs in proving someones guilt or innocence there are still people who get unjustly imprisoned or worse (there are cases in US where somebody was put “on the needle” and later postmortem found not to be guilty).
All we can do is to keep these “cases” to as low as possible. But there will never be a 100% guarantee.
I mean, you can apply the “dO mUsTiQuE pLuS wiTh fRieNds” mentality to everything.
“of someone harassed you in dungeon”? yeah play with friends and no one will!
“oh someone scammed you in trade?” play with friends and you wont get scammazed
etc.
its really not an excuse for “bad” behavior.
I can get behind this, but would prefer it in a cutoff manner such that if we’re going by leave percent it will show in brackets such that 95% and 100% for example is the same, to eliminate the impact of those cases, and avoid people going “you left 1 run this week so we won’t take you.”
If you combine these 2 systems, then we might have something, question is, what do you want the punishment to be? Is it just gonna be showing other’s your leave %? Something like a timeout/30 min ban from LFG? It needs to be impactful to deter people from doing it, but not so impactful that people can’t leave groups when justified 1-2 times a week.
As a side not i know it is not “guilty persons”, but it is quoted from a book from the 1760s, hence the faulty grammar.
But is it on a scale so big? Is it a massive amount of people leaving? Can we even quantify it? I don’t see it that often, actually i can’t remember the last time i saw someone leave where i didn’t think “yea that is understandable” even if i wouldn’t have done it myself.
Was playing a 17 SoB run with a friend on his pretty freshly dinged monk, which was 400 ilvl ish. After the first boss he had had a couple of deaths. Not much he could do about them, he is just squishy with that gear. Then once we get to the spotter he gets a 4x richochet and dies, which you can’t do anything about. At this time he had 5 deaths and the tank just leaves. Some might think this is okay, i at least understand, but that is the closest scenario in recent times where i have seen something resembling an unjustified leave.
I don’t feel like this is a correct analogy, since blizzard does not pretend like they are looking to do something about leavers. There is no courthouse to be a decoration, they have made it clear that they intend on it to be controlled by the players themselves.
I know, but by accurate i mean not 100%, but up there. If we take the blackstone ratio, then it would need to be 90.9% effective, but i don’t know how high i want it to be, but if they can find a good well defined system with a high “correct” %, then we have something.
It does, but there is a major difference. The law system is not an automated machine process, it is done by people and reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Not saying humans are not faulty, but they are better at making decisions than machines, especially when not all evidence could ever be known.
The advantage a system would have, is that it know everything that happened and can recall it, but it is unable to make a judgement on whether or not something would be justified. I don’t know if i mentioned in my reply to you, but somewhere on this thread i stated that if a system needs to be really good with the suggestions made, then you would need people to review the cases, and blizzard does not have that kind of manpower, nor does anyone have the ability to always judge fairly in those situations, even with all the information.
I don’t think anyone uses it as an excuse, it is more of a pieces of advice if you want to avoid being harassed or scammed in the future.
In mythic plus you always need to put your faith in the other players, and that can sometimes backfire, but the way to never have that trust or faith broken, is to play with friends, that is the safe option.
If only there were collections of players out there who work together to get through M+ and raids without rage and drama. Like some kind of… community… or guild, even.
Oh well, what you gonna do. Guess there will never be a way to solve the problem of bad groups, since we live in enforced isolation.
Because that won’t get abused or anything.
If it’s done by Blizzard only and takes into account when runs fall apart, I’m for it. I wouldn’t want to be the 3rd person to leave and be punished because no one else has joined after 10 minutes.
If this system of counting the number of times I’ve left a key is implemented, would it count as key left every time I deplete my key because I want to lower the level and boost my friend(s)?
Not really do like the Overwatch system, there is no negative rating. You either put nothing or put 2 stars for being a good team. 3 stars for being a shot caller.
I want to name and shame my DH alt who stayed this night and suffered through SoS with a sleepy undergeared tank.
I expected to become one of these crazy good all knowing edgelords as soon as I join group as nelf female DH, but I am still this silent key runner. ![:confused:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
How do you guys learn how to flame others in group so well they go offline mid group?