I’ve asked the question twice.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
What I still don’t understand is why you think ‘harder content’ = fighting people of equal skill.
Because it is? 2400 rating 2v2 are a lot more challenging to get wins in than normal BGs. To get to 2400 in the first place you need to be a decent player.
Why should normal BGs give equally good gear for all that low effort?
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You cant just exclude all the other factors though?
- Your team will also have people who do rated
- Both factions have less skilled players
- You rarely see high rated people doing battlegrounds, they dont get rewards for it, in the rare times they do, they do it for fun with the gear they earned in the same aspect of the game you play a.k.a PvP
- Battlegrounds has objectives to win, Arena is to kill the other team.
- People afk in BG’s - giving these guys competative gear is fair? no.
- Arena’s requires team work and co-ordination to win. non-rated battlegrounds doesnt give you this, hence Rated Battlegrounds.
It’s all about competiveness, mythic raiders get the best gear becuase they spend hours preparing and raiding learning mechanics. Same with high mythic+ players. PvP is no different the effort is reflected in the gear you get because we are playing an MMORPG. You cant tell a high tier raider that his gear shouldn’t matter on an LFR boss because you do LFR every week and your gear should be some what on par so why would you expect the same in pvp, i dont understand it?
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Oh well this clears everything up.
I don’t deny 2400 is hard to get. I’d probably never get there. But my understanding is you climb to 2400. You start by facing people of similar skill/gear.
But facing 2400 rated players in bg’s is ‘easy content’ that shouldn’t reward competitive gear for winning? Got it.
1&2 -sure, both teams will have a mix of skilled/unskilled geared/ungeared. Doesn’t answer the question.
3. I often see high rated ppl in bg’s. You yourself seem hyped about rated gear acquisition & said how hyped you were to join bg’s.
4. Playing objectives, reading the map, tracking 10+ buffs/debuffs whilst trying to kill people of higher ilvl is easier than Arena because…?
5.Agreed. Kick the afk’rs. I do expect (but can’t force) people to pull their weight in bg’s.
6. BG’s do require coordination & teamwork to win.
I don’t think that analogy fits here.
Firstly, I wouldn’t tell a high tier raider anything of the sort. If I ever find myself in a PvE raid, it doesn’t matter to me in the slightest what gear the guy next to me has on. That has no impact on me performing to the best of my ability.
In PvP, if my opponent outgears me to the point that I’m fodder ( ”youdont provide any challange to them to be honest,” ), games cease to be competitive & my reason to queue / sub vanishes.
**idk how much you bg, but do you think lvl 50’s in Party Sync in level 30 bracket should keep all their extra strength, gear & external powers that they earned? If not, why not?
You dont face them there very often. And they usually play more casual/less-tryhard in them anyway…
Some people want to opt out of dealing with the stress of groups in WoW (factors time and toxicity mostly). And until other MMORPGS come out that come close to the gameplay WoW has, this is the only thing in town.
The problem is being canonfodder without any sort of path out of being canonfodder.
A path out of being eternally canonfodder (and lets be honest unsubbing), is perhaps allowing casuals 1 item in weekly chest by making the first tier honor earned outside of rated pvp? It would be mega slow but there is at least a path and a reason to keep a subscription.
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1&2 -sure, both teams will have a mix of skilled/unskilled geared/ungeared. Doesn’t answer the question. Well, it does, less skilled and casual players are easier to kill and therefore win.
3. I often see high rated ppl in bg’s. You yourself seem hyped about rated gear acquisition & said how hyped you were to join bg’s.I very much doubt it, we hardly play battlegrounds becuase theres no progression for us, i’m excited becuase i have friends who cant commit to rated but only participate in low keys and bg’s we have a good laugh
4. Playing objectives, reading the map, tracking 10+ buffs/debuffs whilst trying to kill people of higher ilvl is easier than Arena because…? It’s not exactly easier in battlegrounds to win objectives, but to kill people 100% easier which in turn makes winning easier rather than the mechanics of winning Arena’s say above 1600?
5.Agreed. Kick the afk’rs. I do expect (but can’t force) people to pull their weight in bg’s. agreed.
6. BG’s do require coordination & teamwork to win.But do you get it, no, its non-rated, its not important for pretty much anyone who joins one. For anyone who cares about co-ordination or teamwork they join Arena or Rated Battlegrounds
As someone who raided for Cutting Edge back in Legion, it defintely does, anyone who does mythic raiding competes in the damage/healing meters for logs etc and again, if you came in with LFR gear expecting to dps/heal close to the level of a mythic raider for a fraction of the effort they would also feel that it is unfair. Its alabout balance, time invested and effort.
Some might not have the time due to other commitments to progress as they want, but again thats not fair on those who do spend more time and effort in their chosen area of the game.
EDIT - im also excited for bg’s because doing bg’s at the start of the expansion for my base Arena gear will be fun, as arena season doesnt start for 2 weeks.
I don’t mind slow & I don’t mind grafting.
I grinded my way to full 460 conquest whilst most others were at 475+ (because they earned it somewhere else).
I don’t even want/lust for gear, I don’t care for gear or expect ‘the best gear in the game’. I just want to be able to compete. I want to get better at playing, not lather myself up with higher numbers & think that makes me a better player.
But if someone thinks I’m lazy for not putting ’time & effort’ into the game when I’ve eventually grinded my way to 197 when they’ve played 1hr(?) a week to earn 227 & thus deserve to squish me… what’s the actual point?
Facing the same 2ppl in a bg is easier than Arena because: ’less skilled & casual players are easier to kill’ ?
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree. My head hurts.
But curiously, do you think lvl 50’s in Party Sync in level 30 bracket should keep all their extra strength, gear & external powers that they earned? If not, why not?
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After 12 years of playing i’ve never come accross this in non-rated battlegrounds, ever. And i agree i cant keep trying to explain how entry level pvp non-rated battlegrounds should measure up to Arenas in anyway shape or form.
No man this is stupid in my opinion, I dont know why this is allowed. They should have all azerite traits/essences/corruption etc stripped off gear skills locked past the bracket they are playing in and gear scaled down. Atleast at level 50 you have the option to get these, lower levels dont, unless they can get these through the new leveling system? but even then its unfair that they leveled through WoD for example compared to Bfa.
But why?
They earned it by doing harder content.
because the people they are using these against cant get these until they level through BfA… If your trying to relate this to your situation with battlegrounds then the answer is simply, you have the option to do rated, but your limited due to your own situation. Level 30 bracket doesnt have the option to be on a level playing field until they level through BfA.
So you understand the concept of players being somewhat competitive with each other in a bg.
Cool. Just checking.
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Warp my explaination however you want if it means ending this ridiculous debate, sure.
I just want to play casual battleground content without being instantly obliterated by people only because they have better gear. This isn’t a big ask.
Casual battlegrounds are easy enough - like most content in the game - but they’re not so easy that they shouldn’t reward any helpful gear. The fact that highly experienced and well-geared players are going to be queuing for them more often will only make them less easy.
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Good evening fellow adventurers!
Couldn’t read the whole discussion, as it is going quite long, but just wanted to say that I don’t get why they removed the pvp scaling. It was an amazing feature allowing skill to take a bigger part on the fight. I’m not a casual, I’m a high geared player, and would like to give my support to casual players on these times…
Obviously it’s fun to nuke players just because you have better gear and more time invested on the game, but is it fair? Battlegrounds are about objectives, ain’t like arenas where the only goal is to kill enemies. Making goals unachievable for a big slice of the player base ain’t fair. It’s better to win because you worked as a team, not because your team has a healer with mythic gear.
Wishes of great adventures,
Dostoievski
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The problem is that when you’re already in a queue for 15-30 minutes some times just to get into a BG, to then find your facing a full team of BiS and you look at your team and yourself and instantly know that there is absolutely no way on earth that you are even going to be able to compete, let alone win a game, it removes any possibility of fun from the game. I don’t see how it is fun from either side, even in those games where our side manages to dominate in WSG, the only thing more boring than camping people at a GY, is being camped yourself. There really should have been a separate, purely casual option for those of us that just like to play the BG’s for what they are, where gear and rewards are completely irrelevant and games are played simply for fun.
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As long as no form of PvP power on gear was introduced, gear from random BGs was never going to truly be comparable to higher iLvl gear. So unless you set foot into some form of rated PvP, you will have a hard time winning fights against better geared players, just like in BfA, and just like you would without this change.
In my opinion, that is as it should, but I know some disagree on that. I feel that if what you truly want to do in the game is play BGs, then the game should incentivize you to progress in that aspect of the game and perhaps look in to RBGs, and if anything this change seems to breath some much needed life into that game mode. Casual RBGs at low rating is essentially just like BGs, but you know you’ll not randomly have 0 healers, you won’t queue in to a team of full BiS-geared players, because those players are up against equal opponents at their own rating.
I love BGs, and I used to love RBGs even more and was sad to see that whole part of the game die off. Now this change and this new system has made me more hyped for Shadowlands than any other change could.
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I reached at 8.2 2.4 rating in 2vs2. I stopped playing after that though. Not a nice game, just robots playing. Terrible experience. Why I need to do arenas to have very good gear for unrated content? How often the mythic raiders with their high ilevel go like ‘hell today let’s go do some heroic pugs’
Arena is for years an extremely unbalanced game. Specific combos win, for example RMP, jungle.
Tanks and specific classes get for years punished(arcane mages being a good example) . Why those people do not have at least the option to be competitive in unrated games where anyway arena dudes can shine based on their skills?
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Guys its like 1000x better then in bfa when from bgs you got nothing but blue useless gear like 50 ilvl below pve…
Now you can get whole versa set by playing(a lot) bgs and doing weekly cap by some rated stuff for 1-3 vault item seems good. No idea why op is so scared of it…
The only thing i’ve learnt from Stoopz videos is that non-rated battleground spammers want to jump into entry level content and be relavent to those who play the same aspect of the game at a harder level.
Heres the logic i’ve been given so far by battleground spammers: -
Person 1 - logs in and spams entry level battlegrounds that require teamwork, co-ordination but most often doesnt get it ergo entry level.
Person 2 - logs in for the same amount of time as Person 1 and does Rated Battlegrounds, person 2 gets to work as a team and co-ordinate with his team and earn rating which means him and his team get to play more teams with roughly same gear and skilll level.
Now Person 2 shouldnt be allowed to use newly aquired gear in entry level battlegrounds because its unfair that they earned it doing the same content using the same amount of hours.