But you don’t understand mr… if we have options, that means everyone will abuse and we all know it cause reasons …
decided to answer for the other people, hope that’s ok … 
That is legit the argument they have btw … What can currently be abused a bit is not abused because you can only abuse it a bit, if you could abuse it more, everyone would abuse it cause reasons … And sicne everyone is abusing it they are therefor excluded … ?
I like how you dismiss my argument as “bs” and think that makes you right by default. I even provided a valid solution to the issue of items that aren’t even upgrades for you sticking in your inventory when you cannot do anything with them, since I do believe that’s a flaw we should improve on.
Listen mate, you don’t understand. Back in Wrath of the Burning Cataclysm I was top dps and didn’t get a piece of loot I clearly deserved so ML is 
Tbh I’ve also never heard of examples of loot councils that are as corrupt as you are describing until ML was removed and all these “hypothetical scenarios” were suddenly used in arguments in favour of PL. There was the occasional pug story but I’ve never seen anything as extreme as the typical “officer only gave gear to his gf” or w/e.
Guilds with such loot councils did not exist or were EXTREMELY rare because guilds like that do not survive as people would simply just leave them.
There was no reason to remove ML completely for organised raiding, they should have made it so you can only apply it to guild groups though.
Let me sum up your argument … People dont abuse current system because you can only really do it with rings and trinkets and minor stat upgrades, but if we open up more, as if by magic everyone will abuse it cause reasons … that is a BS arguement and you bloody well know it.
And let’s ignore the fact that if you wanted bis loot, the best thing you could do is to not abuse the system as that will make you kill more bosses and therefor get more loot … -.-’
Your whole argument boils down to there could be a few instances of abuse, so better everyone be misrable and unable to trade loot to friends when they want to.
personal loot is just GARBAGE … and guild master loot should be there as option … just that u cant change in the middle of the raid … and that ppl can choose what kind of loot type ppl want … it is like that u have 220 crit master with socket neck and u get 239 haste mastery neck with more haste than mastery and u have to keep but u dont need that neck … SO STOP FORCING PERSONAL LOOT BCS IT IS CRAP … and on top of that ppl in guild raids will be able to put item where are most usable not just by RNG
I’ll never forget one particular situation that happened during my Cutting Edge days in Legion. There was a Wriggling Sinew trinket in Emerald Nightmare, that transferred stacks of a debuff onto a boss and then did a massive explosion once all of the stacks got transfered. Since this damage scaled with any and all damage modifiers, some classes did more damage with it than others. In the case of fire mages, it would scale with some of our artifact stuff, combustion and rune of power which gave us a 50% damage boost at the time.
But, when we first looted that trinket off heroic Il’gynoth, that trinket was not given to a mage who didn’t even have the normal version. It was given to a warlock, for absolutely no reason other than that warlock being an officer. All other mages in our raid got mad about that and pointed out that we’d significiantly increase the raid damage by giving it to a mage (the difference was as massive as almost double the trinket damage), but the warlock still got it.
I’ve also another similar-ish story from a RL friend who plays on WotLK private servers to this day, although not quite as extreme. You know how DKP used to be that really popular system, right? Guess what, the guilds that play there still use it. What that leads to is this friend in particular sometimes going for raids and knowing there’s no chance they’ll get an item because an officer’s third alt of the same class as their main is also in the roster for that night and they collected more DKP beforehand. The reason why they put up with this is that they know they wouldn’t be able to raid at all if they didn’t agree to be robbed out of loot like this.
A system that does not allow this sort of abuse or severely limits it is objectively healthier for the game than a system that does allow it. What’s so difficult to see about that?
Hello there!
BfA loot system was amazing. You had 20% chance of getting your own loot, regardless if other players get it or not. Master loot didn’t make sense in that scenario.
Switching ot Shadowlands, loot changed for “each boss drops X pieces”. That way, it stops being personal luck, and Master Loot is justifyable. It suck feeling lucky due to others not being lucky.
I don’t know why they drop the BfA loot system (I guess it was because bosses could drop a lot of loot, or the minimum that was 3 pieces, and people didn’t like it?), but the Shadowlands system of loot as it is, is just bad.
Master Loot makes all the sense if we are keeping the loot scenario.
But making a vast amount of people miserable just to “protect” a few people is not bloody worth it, what is so hard to understand about that?
LOLwut
10char
You can reduce their amount of feel-bad moments by fixing rules for loot trading, like I’ve suggested a couple times already. If you could fix something without breaking a system that does a great way of preventing all sorts of loot abuse, then why not opt for that?
Okay so pretty much extremely rare as I said.
That’s a whole different scenario that does not compare to the actual game at all imo. DKP is also not the same as a loot council.
So your idea that the game engine sims your char in the background to determine if an item is an upgrade… oh wait, that won’t work, cause sims can lie … especially because of uptime and all that ect … Face it, that will never ever work … the only solution is no restrictions.
And to this silly point… your “friend” and this guild is unable to raid without the RL, there are no other players on this so called private server … So there are 25 people on the server, and 3 of them are running it and making sure the gear goes to them, that’s pretty much what you’re saying …
riiiiiiiiight
See, this is pretty much what Blizzard ignores about ALL of their systems that are putting restrictions on players. It’s not about what you need. It’s about what you feel you need.
It really doesn’t, however being able to trade gear always (without restrictions) does.
Doesn’t need to be this advanced. Think about it this way. The main cases where current trading forces you to keep a non-upgrade is with minor secondary stat upgrades, on jewelry, on trinkets, and with 1h+oh combos when you have a 2-hand or vice-versa. Let me know if I missed any.
The secondary stats could simply be determined by checking the stats on the item against your character’s highest secondaries, since you’d presumably stack your best ones if you are optimising the character. Your highest stats are haste and vers, you get a crit+mastery ring that is 10 ilvls harder, you’re free to trade that. Items with main stat on them (like chestpieces/bracers etc) could either do the same or just check whether there’s at least one of your preferred secondaries on them when they determine if something’s an upgrade.
When it comes to the unwanted off-hands when you wear a staff? Just make the ilvl check inspect whether you have any weapon of that ilvl or higher. That way, the staff will be higher item level, the off-hand is not an upgrade, you’re free to trade that.
Trinkets are the only case I wouldn’t know what to do about, in all honesty.
Wouldn’t work… there are caps for how much of a certain stat you want…
Take S1 Balance druid, at least for M+
You wanted mastery (easy enough)
You wanted Vers as your second highest stat
And haste as high as possible
So my nightmare was always when i got a mastery haste item … because that might push my haste over my vers, therefor making IQD weaker, so therefor that mastery haste item wasn’t an upgrade…
There is no “easy and quick” way to see if an item is an upgrade, the closest you get to that is simming your char.
This man sounds like a wow game dev (clueless)
If your main argument against master looter is the drama it causes because it gets abused by guilds, how does lifting the trade restrictions make this any better? I mean with optional master looter, you could, as a guild, decide to not use it and go for personal loot instead. But if forcing guilds to use personal loot (because given the chance to pick one, no guild leader would use personal loot, for obvious selfish reasons) makes sense, what does people prevent from making “you give everything you get to the loot master or else” a rule?
The difference with this is that you can keep your drop and get kicked from the guild rather than not get loot and stay. Different kind of drama - but still drama.
I was very specific about what I meant by “fixing” loot trading. Free trading would lead exactly to what you’re describing for a plenty of guilds, yes. That’s absolutely right. What I meant are fixes on the current idea of “if the item’s an upgrade for you, then it’s not tradeable” which the item level rule is meant to enforce but won’t always succeed with due to either design flaws or bugs (I’m half-convinced the weapon thing is a bug).