He played at 3.5 compared to your 3.2 i think he understand druid really well, clearing 18’s compared to your 16’s.
Damn thats craazy , no surprise BDK has been meta since DF, such a impresive toolkit and no weaknes’s also.
Le mao
Based too
I don’t think you played PTR… VDH is doing just fine. You have no aggro issues, you have higher single target damage and great aoe dmg. Bear does not outshine VDH in anything, at all. Except for the difficulty, bear is obviously easier.
There are no random one shots. If anything you might run out of CDs on bear with a bad group, while VDH won’t.
PTR
Lmao… like score > everything
If he said the sun is yellow, it would make it more true because of his score or what?
Check his performance compare to other Guardian Druids and you see that he is far below average.
His RIO does not prove if he is competent on his class. His performance does and it’s poor. That’s an objective fact.
Besides that, it doesn’t change anything I said. He just makes an argument based on non-sense. While every pleb knows that VDH has ultimately the best tank utility, he simply claims that VDH can’t live therefore the bear is better. That’s just false. If VDH couldn’t live, why were the highest keys done by VDHs? His RIO being higher than mine on my monk, does not change reality.
Math clearly isn’t your strong suit but let’s go slow. that 140% number means nothing when the healing is chained to a damage intake model that’s been nerfed to the ground. If you aren’t taking damage you aren’t healing. Paladin can top themselves from nothing without being smacked in the face.
reactive healing isn’t a strength.
Paladin immunities are full resets they don’t reduce or resist, they delete incoming damage and mechanics! DK’s immunities are situational resistances. That’s why Paladins can ignore mechanics. Dk’s have to play around them.
The tools are buried behind a talent gate and the things that used to give DKs their control identity are gone, it’s nerfed to hell.
Keep pretending nothing changed. They have bulldozed the house and half the roof.
“But you still have a door.”
Well, it’s from Blizzard. And my evidence is that all the static M+ score dependent rewards are tied to 3k score. So highest reward is at +13 and some +14.
Up to any level, all the specs are fine. How do you define “not fine”?
And they never will be, it’s mathematically impossible.
I had to re-read my comment because I swear it sounded like that you claimed I wrote that BDK has no weaknesses.
Well,must have been the wind.
You should have gone much slower for this one, because I have no idea what point are making.
That out of combat healing for BDK is low? Is that an actual performance criteria? And that we are taking much less damage, therefore it’s less likely to get one-shot? Is that a BDK disadvantage now?
It is when it’s calculated to heal not mitigated damage.
DKs can literally ignore any fights with magic damage, magical effects, knock back and push. Literally, during the entire fight.
I am able to grab my improved Gorefiend in most of my builds.
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Today, we’ve added the following changes to the full list of changes that will be implemented with weekly maintenance in each region:
Demon Hunter
- Havoc
- All ability damage increased by 5%. Does not apply to PvP combat.
Death Knight
- Frost
- Obliterate damage reduced by 5%.
- Rider of the Apocalypse: Mawsworn Menace now increases the damage of Obliterate by 5% (was 10%).
- Rider of the Apocalypse: Hollow Sentinel’s Wake 2-piece now increases Trollbane’s Obliterate damage by 15% (was 35%).
- Deathbringer: Exterminate first scythe damage increased by 10%.
Druid
- Feral
- Ferocious Bite and Ravage primary target damage increased by 6%.
- Shred damage increased by 5%.
- Sabertooth causes Ferocious Bite to increase damage taken from your bleeds and other periodic effects by 6% per combo point (was 5%).
- Wildstalker: Bloodseeker Vines damage increased by 5%.
Hunter
- Beast Mastery
- Tireless Collector’s Bounties - 2-piece chance to fire a free Barbed Shot reduced by 50%.
Mage
- Frost
- All damage dealt reduced by 3%. Does not apply to PvP combat.
Monk
- Mistweaver
- Rushing Wind Kick damage reduced by 50%. Does not apply to PvP combat.
Shaman
- Enhancement
- Stormstrike damage increased by 10%. Does not affect Windstrike.
- Elemental Blast damage increased by 8%.
- Stormbringer: Tempest single target damage increased by 8%.
Warlock
- Demonology
- Wild Imp damage reduced by 20%.
- Immutable Hatred damage reduced by 30%.
- Destruction
- Diabolist: Inquisitor’s Feast of Madness 2-piece has been adjusted – Eye Blast damage reduced by 45%.
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I don’t think they stop there just because that’s the reward they throw away at people for free.
When you just can’t keep up with incoming damage compared to other specs. (from tank/heal pov)
That’s not what I meant. You compare spec to spec, I meant if the balancing design ends around 13s-14s, it would mean we have perfect class balance because every spec can succeed there.
I went slow enough for someone who’s not trying to dodge.
If your healing is calculated off damage taken then reducing the amount of damage you take is lowering the size of your healing pool. You’re chained to the enemy hitting you for your sustain to function.
Except fights aren’t 100% magic damage. Anti magic shell doesn’t make you Voldemort. It’s 5 seconds long. Please explain how 5 seconds “literally the entire fight”
Here’s where my bulls*itometer detonates.
No you’re not grabbing Gorefiend’s rasp in most builds, not without giving up key talents in Tier 1–2. If you are, you’re running a scuffed build for memes or you’re ignoring throughput & mitigation trade offs
You’re not telling the part where something else gets cut to make it happen.
Demonology
- Wild Imp damage reduced by 20%.
- Immutable Hatred damage reduced by 30%.
Nice more nerf for warlock, still zero nerf for retri or anything else that is actually op PvP instead of warlock. All range dps will be arcane, mm and sp next season and few eles, vast majority will be retributions arms and ww. Senseless tuning.
Well, where does it stop? It’s an infinitely scaling system. You will stay that only performance at +20 matters and I will say that only performance at +66 matters, and quite frankly, with the available gear, all tanks perform the exactly same at +66.
That is a valid point that nobody yet raised here. But, is there any pull that tank A can do while BDK cannot? Is there any evidence for it?
Right, but you primary function is to self-sustain. Since healing is % based, taking any amount less is pretty much… Redundant?
Not a problem. It has 45 sec CD. Low enough that it’s available for all major mechanics.
I’ll be the first to admit that my builds aren’t exactly… The most optimal. I simply build my char how I like to play.
If there’s a talent that all the title guys are taking, but I don’t like how it plays, well, then I don’t play that.
I mean… That’s the point of talents. If I take something, but definition, I won’t be able to take something else.
But 3 sec AoE silence is pretty good.
I don’t know.
It’s hard to tell because they don’t solely balance for M+, I just don’t think it’s 13s-14s. But maybe it is? I mean your argument makes sense but it would be almost too ironic if Blizz devs really did it that way.
I think the closest that comes to it would be the regular tank stress testing, what some streamers also did on PTR.
For healers it’s a bit more difficult to test and requires a pre-made group and specific encounter. (like Swampface)
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They just nerf demo even further while there is still zero nerfs for retribution or ww. Rated game btw, yeah right. The only competitive feature with this bad balancing is knowing what to play and then telling everyone that you always liked the retribution and ww class fantasy if somebody accuses of rerolling. Obviously its not real measure of skill anymore if there is specs that are performing 5x stronger than other specs and people with sense for meta knows what to play till it lasts. Good luck everyone.
in terms of dps it’s clearly better than VDH on PTR. Somewhere slightly weaker than warrior before the warrior’s nerf.
Actually, it’s enough to watch streamers with PTR to see for yourself.
I’ve seen random oneshots even from the best players on VDH)
and the bear can’t run out of cooldown if he plays well.
for a player who thinks the bear is easy, yes, they can, and easily)
It is on the PTR that the bear easily survives in any keys of any level, from those that the players have tried.
Who on the PTR did you see problems with the bear’s survival?
DPS or something? Or what are you comparing there? ) DPS, of course, is not the top, because I didn’t play in a DPS build.
Did I mention the second season? What does it have to do with it?)
we were talking about PTR, where VDH has not the best survivability, and relatively low DPS.
so by your own admission you’re not even running the spec at full potential. That means you’re not experiencing the class in the state i’m talking about.
You’ve traded power for personal flavo, which is fine and all I’m happy your having fun but it kills any authority to speak on high end performance or balance. Competitive builds are competitive for a reason. “most builds” in your world means “my personal builds" that ignore the trade offs high end content can’t make.
The % heal is either the fixed minimum OR the value based on recent damage. If you take significantly less damage, you’re stuck with the minimum. Which is garbage sustain in high damage situations. it’s a hard cap on how much you can recover per GCD that’s why reactive healing is weaker in m+. Paladins can heal for full value regardless of they’ve been hit.
You’re overvaluing the ams. It only absorbs magic up to a cap. if the magical lines up outside that 45 second window you’re screwed.
this is in pvp a problem as well lol
Why no Swipe buff?
i mean the game would be better if demo wl and bm hunt is unplayable
both specs are not fun to play against with the current game designe 
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No clue where you got this from. After buffs Guardian Druid definitely does not more. Even in the recent tier lists streamers explicitly say this.
Not Tactyks, not Awoo, not Maximum, not Kira, not Yoda nobody says Guardian Damage is on pair with other tanks, nor does anyone place them higher than VDH.
The reason is clear: VDH has the best utility, while it’s also very tanky and stays durable at higher keys.
Even in the stress testing videos you see that not VDH is the one getting “randomly one shot” but bear…
Yes… on a misplay…
On low keys, yes… on high keys you can and you will. That’s the whole point.
You clearly didn’t play PTR.
Check any tank stress testing. Bear performs worse in everyone’s hands than VDH.
Or better, test yourself and you will see.
Doesn’t matter what.
Your healing performance is even much worse than your dps performance.
They are tankier on PTR than in S2 lmao…
I know they got technically nerfed on paper but everyone who played PTR can clearly see how tanky VDH are.
That’s just wrong. Look up any streamer who does tank stress tanking.
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Just yesterday, for example, Kira played the PTR with a bear, and issued DPS, a little less than his warrior. Moreover, even in a not very optimal build, and with poor stats.
I saw stress tests of Kira and Yoda. Wrong stats, bad builds on the bear. It was a sad sight)
Unless only because of the mistakes of the game by the bear.
If you play without big mistakes, then this will not happen in any way.
Lol) HPS is not top -end, maybe because I didn’t get so much damage? )
Wdym, demo is like mid tier in pvp and gets stomped by all the melee meta and has no dmg even when freecasting. It hasnt been anywhere near top in a year or whole expansion and just waited for buffs like all warlock specs but instead they nerf it for no reason while letting retri and ww buffs go live. I didnt see any play for locks in next season if they dont gain any buffs and they have just managed to kill even the lock mains will to play it now with these completely senseless nerfs.
Feel free to link the same dungeon on same key level where he outperforms his VDH on bear.
I call it now: Not gonna happen
Because it’s PTR? Wrong stats for everyone. None of them performed better on bear than on VDH.
Right… you take magically less damage than every other bear and somehow you do less damage too…